chumb

There's a difference between getting paid just enough to provide for your basic needs, and getting paid enough to afford that new Honda and big-screen TV you always wanted. These people need to work somewhere or they'll starve. If they refuse to work to drive up wages, there's always poor people somewhere else who are starving who will do the work instead.

TheBig3

right but if those poor people have jobs, and they work 15 hours a day they cannot exactly hold two jobs.

if we create more sweatshops, more jobs are created.

if we get enough jobs so that everyone is working, placement goes down.

if replacement goes down, incentives go up.

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chumb

So your plan is to have the 1.1 billion people worldwide who are living in "extreme poverty" as defined by the world bank (<1$ a day) all work in sweatshops? I doubt that the demand to build that many sweatshops is even there. Plus, you have to remember that even if conditions do improve for these people, they will always be paid less than workers in first world countries, and will never receive the opportunities we do.

Trauma

Oh, so you're saying the U.S.A. (because I assume you're talking mainly the U.S.A.) could double as a global policeman and banker?
That argument was a perfect example of an anti-Socialist millionaire.
Even if one were to go along with your sick, demented plan to create thousands of sweatshops in third world countries to allow them to barely survive (not to mention this would also make the U.S.A. a global employer of impoverished peoples, like a card player holding the whole deck of cards and saying, "I'm winning, you're fucked") how long would this process take?
As America consistently increased supply for goods with additional sweatshops, the majority of these goods would be imported into America, and American residents would eventually lessen their demand.
This, of course, would hinder funds on more sweatshops, because the sweatshops producing goods would already be too much for the budget of these patronizing American saints.
The overall effect would be protest of increased outsourcing (because you would eventually delve into more skilled craft, not just work for impoverished residents of other nations) and America would be seen as a trickster that put a dollar bill on the hot pavement, only to pull it back from a recipient (for 15 hours a day, mind you).
Horrible plan; if you had taken the time to read some other statements by All_Nite_Dinah you might have possibly understood a little more.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe, from that, and other posts you've made in the past, that you are one of the "in the box" individuals who was spoon fed on Capitalist theory and can't efficiently think any differently.

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TheBig3

You've blown your cover. Do you really think I'm a socialist millionaire? Do you think anyone does? Actually I'm probably worse of financially than you are. I go to school full time, work full time, and give my parents money so they can live. I don't think I've got it bad comparatively, but I'm certainly no millionaire. What is your economic condition? I paid for school and this computer with school loans. I attend a university that was created to serve the impoverished inner city so that they could work to support their children or parents and still get a better education.

What is it that you do that makes you so aware? Read one-sided ideology on economics in a cursory fashion?

Cursory indeed. Am I not wrong is recalling the Marx said that Communism cannot be installed with some sort of Lenninist Vanguard party but rather must come naturally from capitalisms down fall as it tries to handle its every expanding rings of capitalism? Jesus, I hope that isn't correct or ironically enough I'm the one supporting communism and you're supporting Lenninism.

Who is patronizing again? Any by the way, what country are you from?

God forbid I don't read that closed-minded hogwash from All Night Dinah but apparently you couldn't be bothered to read anything I wrote. Not only did I use facts, facts that backed up my statements and countered yours, but these people want the 15 hour a day jobs. Believe it or not, Not everyone believes that the hug-circles and maypole dances of your unhygienic dystopia are the "stuff of dreams."

If you had read anything I wrote, or more importantly anything I've read you might be slightly more capable to argue.

Well lets see. You apparently see no problems with this system thats set to save us all, and hasn't in the past. The system in place that affords you the ability to protest has absolutely no redeeming qualities. And I'm the one in the box?

You offer no solutions, just condemnation of systems in place. The grass is always greener I suppose. But thus the issue. As Micheal Freeden accuratly put it:

"Marx's quasi-messianic conviction that a socialist, undistorted society would prevail meant that present defects were worth deploring, not exploring. It is as if a student of political institutions decided that it was a waste of time to study the House of Commons because its debates exhibit inferior political practice; they display loutish behaviour, competitive antagonism, gross inefficiencies and ridiculous seating arrangements. Instead, declares the scholar, let's devote our intellectual efforts to predicting the development of a best-practice legislature, which can be defended and endorsed permanently"

And so it goes. Your idiot system works because no one is proving that it will fail. Not any more.

You see to be gunning for me in every thread Trauma. Be careful you don't run out of ammunition sir, lest you be seen as a fool. Given what you say, I clearly already am, and have nothing to lose.

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boo boo

I'm not anti-captitalism per se, even though my people have been damned to near extinction because of it. I am however very opposed to free trade. Which does nothing but enable corrupt soul sucking corporate demons of every kind to do whatever the hell they want.

This is your most blatantly ignorant comment of the week. Congratulations.

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TheBig3

Perhaps you don't get it. I've written pages and pages about the validity of this opinion. I've researched twice as much as I've written.

Ignorant is something you and your uneducated ilk throw around as if you've gained some form of monopoly on the word. Or rather if those of us using facts have gained a sort of monopsony. The fact remains that I said why it was not only logical but beneficial.

You still seem to think that you're going to go in to Thailand with your Blue Helmet on and demanding that the rice farmer gets $15 an hour to make irregular sweaters for Old Navy. Pull your head out of your ass you uneducated little boy and go visit the real world. Go back to telling me The Beatles are some sort of infallible group of demigod's where you can at least fake knowing what you're talking about when you secretly just pull out the same boring tid bits Rolling Stone has been cramming down the American esophagus for the past 40 ****ing years.

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boo boo

I enjoy your rants. I know you're just stressin' tho. Relax. Lets make sweet love by the fireplace.

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boo boo

Also. Even though what you said about sweatshops is correct. It makes jobs only for people in other countries. And call me a selfish jackass but thats not our responsibility, we need to look after our own. And downsizing and offshoring claims more jobs than illegal immigration ever will.

Besides, taking all the cons of sweatshops like horrid working conditions and low wages into consideration. Simply being employed dosen't seem to be that much of a pro.

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TheBig3

Case in point, your Honor.

Well we're making a case for capitalism. I'm not saying that this is what we should do, im saying this is how to fix the issue of third world poverty. All nations fight a bloody battle through industrialization. The idea that you can go from agricultural society to post-industrial without the in between is the garbage rhetoric of the uneducated. Not only does it assume that a nation has the resources, but has been hiding them.

If they made American wages, companies would just employ workers here. The third world would still die of malaria, there'd just be no way to give them help without aid dropping medical aid. Thats no solution...teach a man to fish and he eats for a day...

I don't think I understand what you're getting at in the last statement though. Are you saying the working conditions make having the job too sucky to be redeemable?

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