The Genesis 2018 Discussion Thread

Chula Vista · 01-20-2018, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I love the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section on No Reply At All.

You likey?

Trollheart · 01-20-2018, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Gonna go legit try to like Abacab. Apparently my desire to **** on TH is greater than my desire to **** on Genesis.

I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Oh, and I don't care.
But if it forces you to listen to Genesis, cool. I'll enjoy your pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Anyone know what ABACAB is in reference to?

Chord structure, innit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Well that didn't work. After the first song it's a sleeping pill with synths so awful that the 80s almost came back to life to start a zombie apocalypse. And that solo section in the title track can still go **** itself. Tried Selling England by the Pound again just to see if my opinion had changed, and how can one band be so lame? So. ****ing. Lame.

I enjoyed your pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Yeah, I can't say I'm into Abacab all that much either. Sorry, Trolls.

Why are you sorry? I don't like it. It's Nea you should (maybe) be apologising to. He thinks it's one of the best albums ever recorded!

Also, this all proves my point that the only contribution Nea can make to a Genesis thread is, apparently, that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Did y’all see the Black Mirror where Trolls gets stuck in a Plug simulation and the only thing on his playlist is ABACAB?

Now you're just trying to scare me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Spoiler for spoilers:

Stranger things have happened. Nah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I love the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section on No Reply At All.

One of the things I hate about it. Damn I hate that song.

Neapolitan · 01-20-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I love the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section on No Reply At All.

See you get it. I don't know why Trolls don't get it. Paperlate is another great example.

Neapolitan · 01-20-2018, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

You likey?

Horns were always used in Rock and Roll. It's a carry over from Jazz. There were even bands based on horn players like Johnny Paris and Herb Alpert. I think the way the Beach Boys used a horn section set the tone for the 70s and 80s. I don't know why wait till Ababcab to start hating Genesis for using them.
Beach Boys - Darlin'

rubber soul · 01-20-2018, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Horns were always used in Rock and Roll. It's a carry over from Jazz. There were even bands based on horn players like Johnny Paris and Herb Alpert. I think the way the Beach Boys used a horn section set the tone for the 70s and 80s. I don't know why wait till Ababcab to start hating Genesis for using them.
Beach Boys - Darlin'

I guess it depends on the song really. One of my least favorite Beatles songs has been Got To Get You Into My Life because of the use of horns. It's not that I mind the use of horns in rock songs if done right, but Paul McCartney just isn't very good at doing white soul. My hangup with Phil Collins era Genesis is they became so commercial, especially as time went on. It has nothing to do with horns for me.

Oriphiel · 01-20-2018, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Did y’all see the Black Mirror where Trolls gets stuck in a Plug simulation and the only thing on his playlist is ABACAB?

Trollheart · 01-20-2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

See you get it. I don't know why Trolls don't get it. Paperlate is another great example.

It's not a case of getting it. I just don't like it. I'm allowed not to like it. You don't like Waits but I don't constantly get on your case about it. I don't like that track and yeah, Paperlate is total **** paper too. Live with it; not everyone has the same opinion as you.

And now....

Trollheart · 01-20-2018, 03:02 PM

In an attempt to prevent this becoming the Abacab thread, or the Troll vs Nea Deathmatch, I'm going to be giving my thoughts on every Genesis album, in order, track by track. These will be seriously MINI-reviews: I already reviewed every single Genesis studio album in excruciating depth in my journal a few years back. If you want to read them, feel free. These are just to open up the thread a little. Back with the debut shortly.

Trollheart · 01-20-2018, 08:24 PM

Note: I'm only doing these albums as I know them, and that's mostly on vinyl so don't expect any bonus tracks. Any special editions or whatever released afterwards can **** right off. Also, all ratings of tracks here are relevant only to that album, so a 10 on one album doesn't mean it's as good as a 10 on another, and so on.

From Genesis to Revelation (1969)
First off, as everyone knows (probably) I do not like this album much at all. It's much more a folk album than a prog one and though it does point the way - very vaguely - towards what Genesis would become, it's much more the next album that really shows what superstars these guys would become. More or less driven by Jonathan King to make this album, supposedly based on the Bible, though I've never seen it, the guys sound uncomfortable and stilted here, kind of caught between two worlds, and indeed, on the very cusp of a new decade. It speaks volumes that this is the only Genesis album I have to replay in order to write about it. I just don’t listen to it. Ever. With good reason.

Where the Sour Turns to Sweet
Very folk, very hippy, very Haight-Ashbury, the stupid finger clicking annoys me, the vocal is probably too soft and "peace man", but it's not the worst track on the album. Not by a long chalk. Still, it's an inauspicious beginning I feel.
5/10

In the Beginning
Opens like some sort of feedback experimental track or something but quickly turns into another hippy song with some really terrible production - sounds very hollow and echoey. Gabriel's voice is at least more forceful here and Rutherford's guitar gets a chance to do more than just play along and keep the beat. It's again not the worst song but it's far from the best on the album. At least (as I said in my main review) it has more teeth than the opener.
6/10

Fireside Song
My favourite track on the album. The gentle, strummed guitar, the strings backing (I know most people decry the use of the strings on the album as just another effort by King to mould it into what he wanted it to be, but here I think they work very well), the soft vocal totally suits this song. Extra points for the Tony Banks piano intro, presaging something we would all get used to and love on Genesis albums.
10/10

The Serpent
This is one of the songs I don’t like at all. It sounds to me like it doesn’t know what it wants to be, starting with a kind of rocky guitar and then becoming a sort of psych/blues thing, with galloping drums that suddenly and for no reason cut out completely. The choral vocals are very annoying too. I find Gabriel’s vocal fading in and out of the mix - not sure whether that’s his immaturity and inexperience at the time, or just bad production, but it’s very irritating. Get a kind of Moody Blues vibe from this. Really doesn’t work for me.
3/10

Am I Very Wrong
There are a few low-key ballads on the album, and in general, for me, they tend to work better than the more raucous rocky ones. In other words, at this time, Genesis come across better when they try to be hippies than when they attempt to be rockers. They’d come to understand this later, and with a very few exceptions you won’t find any wild guitar solos in Genesis songs. Another nice Banks intro, with some really nice acoustic guitar too, though the vocal harmonies are a little cringey. Gabriel is in his element here, and beginning to show what a vocal talent he would turn out to be.
7/10

In the Wilderness
Another favourite, this one opens with a Banks solo but soon kicks up, and Gabriel shows his range here. Again the strings do actually help here I find. There’s a great hook in the chorus, and you can hear the future echoes of “Visions of Angels” from the next album in certain passages. Even here, as far back as 1969, Genesis are already complaining about wallpaper music radio, in a way Queen would take up two decades later. Lovely piano outro completes the song.
9/10

The Conqueror
I think if I have to choose a least favourite song on the album it’s this one. I feel it’s way too harsh for the generally hippy/peace image they’re trying to present here, even though it borrows from the outro, which is quickly replaced by dark bass piano notes and becomes an uptempo pop song. It’s catchy, there’s no doubting that, but I just don’t like it. It could be any sixties band really. Again the vocal gets swamped by the music, again I don’t know if this is a production issue or not, but I would think it probably is. That guitar solo at the end is just so out of place!
4/10

In Hiding
Like something the Beach Boys or the Hollies might have recorded when it begins, but it slides into a decent ballad, again driven by Gabriel’s vocal prowess, and once again the strings really complement this song for me. It’s gentle, it’s pastoral, but it’s a little weak to say the least.
5/10

One Day
Another favourite, even if the lyric about a guy living in the wilderness with his lady love is barf-inducing, Gabriel makes it actually charming. A really good musical backdrop to the story, excellent work from Banks on the piano (either the budget only stretched to organ and piano for him, or he had only learned to play those two, and not the array of synths and other instruments he would later employ to create his sound: well, he was only seventeen at the time, remember!) and decent horns, which surprisingly really work well.
9/10

Window
Nice jangly guitar opening this, Anthony Phillips making his mark, and then it’s another soft ballad with Gabriel dialling down his voice to the barest murmur and still keeping, even commanding your attention. A simple song, but a really nice one. Horns and strings complete the musical landscape here.
8/10

In Limbo
One track where I feel the horns don’t work, and it’s too straight forward a pop song with nothing of the identity of even this Genesis in it. I feel Gabriel’s vocal is quite restrained and almost lost for much of this track. Too driven by the horns, not enough Banks piano and even the guitar is kind of just there.
4/10

The Silent Sun
I always find it odd that this was the track chosen as a single from this album. Not that it matters - it bombed of course. But if there’s a song that’s completely out of place here then for me this is it. The rhythm is weird - I almost expect to hear backing singers goin “bub-bub-bub-bub!” And from what I can remember (and have heard here) it’s the only song on which Genesis use that overused address, “baby”. Even the strings and the recalling of the main melody of “Fireside Song” can’t save this. Just a stupid and utterly pointless love song, an obvious attempt to write a hit single, which failed miserably. Terrible.
2/10

A Place To Call My Own
A nice coda to the album, bringing everything together under a soft, understated Banks piano line, a gentle vocal for Gabriel, and some last but relatively minimal strings. He instrumental, orchestral ending makes it, and actually does help point the way towards the direction on future albums, particularly Trespass.
7/10

Album rating: 3/10

rubber soul · 01-21-2018, 04:19 AM

I actually like From Genesis to Revelation and especially the Silent Sun. I'm not a deep prog person after King Crimson and Yes, so I like the shorter song structures on this album. I am looking forward to your thoughts on the next entries though. I also notice that a song I had on the album (it was a reissue obviously) is not on here and that is That's Me. That's probably my favorite from the sixties Genesis overall. I think that was actually a single they recorded in 1968 before the Revelation album.

01-20-2018, 03:02 PM	#178 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	In an attempt to prevent this becoming the Abacab thread, or the Troll vs Nea Deathmatch, I'm going to be giving my thoughts on every Genesis album, in order, track by track. These will be seriously MINI-reviews: I already reviewed every single Genesis studio album in excruciating depth in my journal a few years back. If you want to read them, feel free. These are just to open up the thread a little. Back with the debut shortly. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

01-20-2018, 08:24 PM	#179 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Note: I'm only doing these albums as I know them, and that's mostly on vinyl so don't expect any bonus tracks. Any special editions or whatever released afterwards can ** right off. Also, all ratings of tracks here are relevant only to that album, so a 10 on one album doesn't mean it's as good as a 10 on another, and so on. From Genesis to Revelation (1969) First off, as everyone knows (probably) I do not like this album much at all. It's much more a folk album than a prog one and though it does point the way - very vaguely - towards what Genesis would become, it's much more the next album that really shows what superstars these guys would become. More or less driven by Jonathan King to make this album, supposedly based on the Bible, though I've never seen it, the guys sound uncomfortable and stilted here, kind of caught between two worlds, and indeed, on the very cusp of a new decade. It speaks volumes that this is the only Genesis album I have to replay in order to write about it. I just don’t listen to it. Ever. With good reason. Where the Sour Turns to Sweet Very folk, very hippy, very Haight-Ashbury, the stupid finger clicking annoys me, the vocal is probably too soft and "peace man", but it's not the worst track on the album. Not by a long chalk. Still, it's an inauspicious beginning I feel. 5/10 In the Beginning Opens like some sort of feedback experimental track or something but quickly turns into another hippy song with some really terrible production - sounds very hollow and echoey. Gabriel's voice is at least more forceful here and Rutherford's guitar gets a chance to do more than just play along and keep the beat. It's again not the worst song but it's far from the best on the album. At least (as I said in my main review) it has more teeth than the opener. 6/10 Fireside Song My favourite track on the album. The gentle, strummed guitar, the strings backing (I know most people decry the use of the strings on the album as just another effort by King to mould it into what he wanted it to be, but here I think they work very well), the soft vocal totally suits this song. Extra points for the Tony Banks piano intro, presaging something we would all get used to and love on Genesis albums. 10/10 The Serpent This is one of the songs I don’t like at all. It sounds to me like it doesn’t know what it wants to be, starting with a kind of rocky guitar and then becoming a sort of psych/blues thing, with galloping drums that suddenly and for no reason cut out completely. The choral vocals are very annoying too. I find Gabriel’s vocal fading in and out of the mix - not sure whether that’s his immaturity and inexperience at the time, or just bad production, but it’s very irritating. Get a kind of Moody Blues vibe from this. Really doesn’t work for me. 3/10 Am I Very Wrong There are a few low-key ballads on the album, and in general, for me, they tend to work better than the more raucous rocky ones. In other words, at this time, Genesis come across better when they try to be hippies than when they attempt to be rockers. They’d come to understand this later, and with a very few exceptions you won’t find any wild guitar solos in Genesis songs. Another nice Banks intro, with some really nice acoustic guitar too, though the vocal harmonies are a little cringey. Gabriel is in his element here, and beginning to show what a vocal talent he would turn out to be. 7/10 In the Wilderness Another favourite, this one opens with a Banks solo but soon kicks up, and Gabriel shows his range here. Again the strings do actually help here I find. There’s a great hook in the chorus, and you can hear the future echoes of “Visions of Angels” from the next album in certain passages. Even here, as far back as 1969, Genesis are already complaining about wallpaper music radio, in a way Queen would take up two decades later. Lovely piano outro completes the song. 9/10 The Conqueror I think if I have to choose a least favourite song on the album it’s this one. I feel it’s way too harsh for the generally hippy/peace image they’re trying to present here, even though it borrows from the outro, which is quickly replaced by dark bass piano notes and becomes an uptempo pop song. It’s catchy, there’s no doubting that, but I just don’t like it. It could be any sixties band really. Again the vocal gets swamped by the music, again I don’t know if this is a production issue or not, but I would think it probably is. That guitar solo at the end is just so out of place! 4/10 In Hiding Like something the Beach Boys or the Hollies might have recorded when it begins, but it slides into a decent ballad, again driven by Gabriel’s vocal prowess, and once again the strings really complement this song for me. It’s gentle, it’s pastoral, but it’s a little weak to say the least. 5/10 One Day Another favourite, even if the lyric about a guy living in the wilderness with his lady love is barf-inducing, Gabriel makes it actually charming. A really good musical backdrop to the story, excellent work from Banks on the piano (either the budget only stretched to organ and piano for him, or he had only learned to play those two, and not the array of synths and other instruments he would later employ to create his sound: well, he was only seventeen at the time, remember!) and decent horns, which surprisingly really work well. 9/10 Window Nice jangly guitar opening this, Anthony Phillips making his mark, and then it’s another soft ballad with Gabriel dialling down his voice to the barest murmur and still keeping, even commanding your attention. A simple song, but a really nice one. Horns and strings complete the musical landscape here. 8/10 In Limbo One track where I feel the horns don’t work, and it’s too straight forward a pop song with nothing of the identity of even this Genesis in it. I feel Gabriel’s vocal is quite restrained and almost lost for much of this track. Too driven by the horns, not enough Banks piano and even the guitar is kind of just there. 4/10 The Silent Sun I always find it odd that this was the track chosen as a single from this album. Not that it matters - it bombed of course. But if there’s a song that’s completely out of place here then for me this is it. The rhythm is weird - I almost expect to hear backing singers goin “bub-bub-bub-bub!” And from what I can remember (and have heard here) it’s the only song on which Genesis use that overused address, “baby”. Even the strings and the recalling of the main melody of “Fireside Song” can’t save this. Just a stupid and utterly pointless love song, an obvious attempt to write a hit single, which failed miserably. Terrible. 2/10 A Place To Call My Own** A nice coda to the album, bringing everything together under a soft, understated Banks piano line, a gentle vocal for Gabriel, and some last but relatively minimal strings. He instrumental, orchestral ending makes it, and actually does help point the way towards the direction on future albums, particularly Trespass. 7/10 *Album rating: 3/10* __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018