The Future of Prog looking forward, Grim?

Tributary Records · 01-02-2016, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

That is an idiotic concept. If the "older folks" were worried about rock's "validity", then the older folks should have been more worried about their irrational inferiority complex for listening to pop music. If you think that adding jazz and classical influences to rock makes it somehow more valid, then you just have a shallow concept of music.

The older generation that grew up on big band and classical music thought all rock music was silly and lacked serious musicianship. Bringing in trained musicians into rock did give the genre a new sense of validity to the older folks who wrote it off an just nonsense.

The Batlord · 01-02-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

The older generation that grew up on big band and classical music thought all rock music was silly and lacked serious musicianship. Bringing in trained musicians into rock did give the genre a new sense of validity to the older folks who wrote it off an just nonsense.

Yeah. Like I said. Dumb. And I highly doubt any Frank Sinatra fans were that enthused about Yes.

Trollheart · 01-02-2016, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

The problem is that one could argue that 'Progressive" means we have to leave the instruments in their cases and do all the music on a computer.

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I struggle to see how this could be the case. I honestly dont' understand what they're saying. If they mean just make music on computer, fine, but that's electronic/ambient music, not prog rock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Um. That's an interesting view on it, I guess.

I'm with this guy, as above. He MAKES his own instruments!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

The older generation that grew up on big band and classical music thought all rock music was silly and lacked serious musicianship. Bringing in trained musicians into rock did give the genre a new sense of validity to the older folks who wrote it off an just nonsense.

Again, I don't see what you're saying. You're advocating the idea that just because say Blackmore was classically trained that the older generation suddenly afforded him validity, and ignored the fact he wore leather trousers and had long hair, and played one of them eel-ek-tronic gee-tars instead of an upright bass like most normal folks??

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Yeah. Like I said. Dumb. And I highly doubt any Frank Sinatra fans were that enthused about Yes.

x2

Tributary Records · 01-02-2016, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I struggle to see how this could be the case. I honestly dont' understand what they're saying. If they mean just make music on computer, fine, but that's electronic/ambient music, not prog rock.

I'm with this guy, as above. He MAKES his own instruments!

Again, I don't see what you're saying. You're advocating the idea that just because say Blackmore was classically trained that the older generation suddenly afforded him validity, and ignored the fact he wore leather trousers and had long hair, and played one of them eel-ek-tronic gee-tars instead of an upright bass like most normal folks??

x2

There are plenty of kids trying to make prog rock on their computers. There are all kinds of drum kit programs, bass, guitars, keys… everything. They try to construct it, and often do, all on a laptop without ever learning an instrument.

What it lacks is the human feel and touch (and there are now programs for that as well).

An instrument vibrates when you play it in real time. That vibration affects the way you play and what you are playing. The computer doesn't do that. It lacks vibration.

If you can't do it live, you're just pretending. There is a lot of pretending going on.

**Frownland** · 01-02-2016, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

There are plenty of kids trying to make prog rock on their computers. There are all kinds of drum kit programs, bass, guitars, keys… everything. They try to construct it, and often do, all on a laptop without ever learning an instrument.

What it lacks is the human feel and touch (and there are now programs for that as well).

An instrument vibrates when you play it in real time. That vibration affects the way you play and what you are playing. The computer doesn't do that. It lacks vibration.

If you can't do it live, you're just pretending. There is a lot of pretending going on.

If you turn your speakers up you can feel the vibration from the electronic instruments. In my experience people who moan about how electronic instruments suck are generally people who have heard embarrassingly little of those instruments. Can you show me some of this computer prog that all of these kids are apparently doing these days? I get the feeling your imagining this big movement as a way to make your "them damn kids don't even know what music is!" sentiment. Like I said earlier, you seem to be good ole daysin pretty hard.

Tributary Records · 01-03-2016, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

If you turn your speakers up you can feel the vibration from the electronic instruments. In my experience people who moan about how electronic instruments suck are generally people who have heard embarrassingly little of those instruments. Can you show me some of this computer prog that all of these kids are apparently doing these days? I get the feeling your imagining this big movement as a way to make your "them damn kids don't even know what music is!" sentiment. Like I said earlier, you seem to be good ole daysin pretty hard.

Referring to the creation part of the music, not playback.

If you hold a guitar or trumpet in your hands, it vibrates when you play it in real time, and that affects the player with instant feel and feedback.
That doesn't happen when you are copy and pasting sound files on a computer.

It all needs to be explored, but there is a difference between a person that actually plays an instrument and those who don't. Sound collaging on a computer may be digital art, but it is not playing an instrument.

The Batlord · 01-03-2016, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

Referring to the creation part of the music, not playback.

If you hold a guitar or trumpet in your hands, it vibrates when you play it in real time, and that affects the player with instant feel and feedback.
That doesn't happen when you are copy and pasting sound files on a computer.

It all needs to be explored, but there is a difference between a person that actually plays an instrument and those who don't. Sound collaging on a computer may be digital art, but it is not playing an instrument.

How much digital music have you actually created? Cause from the way you talk about it, it sounds like a lot.

**Frownland** · 01-03-2016, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

Referring to the creation part of the music, not playback.

If you hold a guitar or trumpet in your hands, it vibrates when you play it in real time, and that affects the player with instant feel and feedback.
That doesn't happen when you are copy and pasting sound files on a computer.

It all needs to be explored, but there is a difference between a person that actually plays an instrument and those who don't. Sound collaging on a computer may be digital art, but it is not playing an instrument.

Computers have changed a little bit since the 1940s. You can create electronic music (that doesn't even sound electronic sometimes) in real time. Do you also dislike synthesizers? They don't vibrate with you when you play them and all they do is put effects on sounds, so are they really instruments?

The Batlord · 01-02-2016, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

There are plenty of kids trying to make prog rock on their computers. There are all kinds of drum kit programs, bass, guitars, keys… everything. They try to construct it, and often do, all on a laptop without ever learning an instrument.

What it lacks is the human feel and touch (and there are now programs for that as well).

An instrument vibrates when you play it in real time. That vibration affects the way you play and what you are playing. The computer doesn't do that. It lacks vibration.

If you can't do it live, you're just pretending. There is a lot of pretending going on.

Plenty of artists who play "real" instruments don't play live. Plenty of artists who play electronic instruments and such do. Concerts are just one aspect of music, and to equate them with musical quality is small-minded. What matters is the end product, whatever that product may be.