Trollheart

Then why are you here? This is a forum, where we debate issues, and that invariably involves arguing. Also, your thread has a question mark at the end, so you obviously are asking for opinions. Not all of those will agree with yours, ergo, you are here to argue.
You were the one who brought up the idea of electronic music not being genuine. Don't whine now when people take you to task about it. Threads often begin on one subject and veer all over the place, but this isn't OT: You brought it up.
You really need me to tell you that, when there are extremely talented musicians here who use computers in their music??
Please stop using this as an example. Nobody is saying that music made by stitching together samples of other people's music is superior to or even equal to making it on your own, but bands have been doing this since sampling became popular. Remember Art of Noise?
Check the music in YorkeDaddy or Plainview's sig, and see if you can maintain your superior attitude.
Are you being deliberately obtuse, or jsut refusing to see that your argument has been destroyed? I already told you, the guys who make electronic music here PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS --- REAL INSTRUMENTS --- AND THEN copy/paste it as they need to. Do I have to repeat that? Please stop this mantra about "music pasted on computer is not real music": you're missing (deliberately or accidentally) the real point. Please acknowledge which it is, as though I'm not an electronic musician and considered by some close-minded , you're annoying me and giving prog rock fans a bad name with your trenchant opinions and pontificating. It's embarrassing. If you want to have a proper debate, acknowledge that you're starting off from a false premise.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Frownland

That's a very sneaky way to avoid answering the question there. I'm just going to assume that you're conjecturing with no real basis.

It's not offensive, but there's no reason not to call them songs. Kind of sounds like you have a disdain for it so you refuse to lump it in with things that you do like.

You were probably pretty ****ty at collages, didn't have good marketing, and didn't have the connections to get into a museum. Here's some great collage art that's more advanced than what you'll see at an arts and crafts table:


1. You don't have to like electronic music to consider electronic instruments as instruments. Sticking your head in the ground because you don't like the music and continuously shouting that they aren't instruments doesn't do much to strength your case. Anything used to make music is a musical instrument, simple as that. Bang on a toilet seat for percussion? Congratulations, toilet seat, you are now an instrument. You can do all the mental gymnastics that you want about vibrations and all that nonsense, but that won't change that fact.

2. Here you go





Still, whether you may like any of these is beside the point.

3. Getting worked up about how an artist makes music (such as using electronics) only hinders your enjoyment of good music.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Neapolitan

8 bit is composed on a computer, does that count?
King Crimson - 21st century schizoid man 8 Bit - YouTube

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grindy

It sure counts, but I'd prefer an original composition.
And while I dig some 8-bit stuff, I'd like my electronic prog with a more nuanced sound.

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A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.

Neapolitan

One of the first artist I remember talking about music in terms of being a "collage" was Bryan Ferry. His idea came from Art school as well.

People use to communicate by writing letters on loose leaf paper, now they use a computer, they use to order from catalogs, now they order online. They use to use a landline telephone now they use a cellphone/smartphone that can do a hundred things no one a generation ago would dream a phone could do. Even though copy/paste electronica played on launchpads doesn't appeal to me, I see it as part of the evolution of how things work.

While Skrillex uses a software (FM8) for his bass wobbles, (& I see your point "digital sound collaging" isn't that great) there a bunch of other (real) musicians out there that use vintage hardware synthesizers, like Sean McBride and other Minimal Electronic artists, just like Tangerine Dream did. And if there is any point to this it's that if Cold Wave could be forgotten and have a resurgence in interest decades later, and artist strive to be pure to the original form, I don't see why Prog can't.

Momentform - She's Into Clubs - by didital artist, Ianis Lallemand, based in Paris, released on W.T. Records which was founded by William Thomas Burnett.

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Chula Vista

Not exactly prog, but this entire piece was composed and recorded using a sampling keyboard and a computer. Performed entirely by Shawn Lane.

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“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

JGuy Grungeman

Well, to be fair, is not arguing also a term for a more heated discussion? That's what people call arguing. Heated disagreements. Discussions can be disagreements, but I think the overall point is that he's not here to raise heat. I know I don't like arguing. I like discussions.

But Tributary, you should at least get some more info on what a musician does before stating something. Trust me when I say music users can easily be offended. Trust. Me. Seriously. Emphasis. I understand you're pretty new here, but I won't assume this is your first forum. Are you a musician?

Now, for my own input: Prog has always been very big, and there's already been one "revival" of prog called Neo-Prog. Not really a revival, but prog for a new era. ANd we still have original prog these days, like Porcupine Tree. If prog goes outside of the mainstream, it's big enough now to get a revival sometime in the future, even if that revival ends up short lived. I mean, we've already had a few revival genres.

Chula Vista

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“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

JGuy Grungeman

"original" as in new bands.

Trollheart

Well for my money the phrase "not here to argue" indicates a few things: a) hes lost the debate but doesn't want to admit that and so is kind of running off without settling it or admitting defeat b) he has no further fuel for his argument or c) he's a little overwhelmed by the response he got. His thread is in itself a question, and he was the one who loudly proclaimed that the creation of music on or with computers was not "real" music. He's abjectly failed to back this up or argue conclusively, refusing to provide samples even though asked to do so repeatedly (he didn't have to insert the videos, he could have just linked to them. Surely any exposure is good exposure for these artists?) instead falling back on repeating the same points over and over, like a child with its fingers stuck in its ears.

And since you ask, he said in the OP he runs a prog record label or store, so he's more than familiar with musicians I would say, which is another reason why I find his high-handed attitude very annoying. It comes across as the worst accusation levelled at prog down the years, that of being pretentious and arrogant, thinking yourself better than others. This is definitely, without question, the impression he gives me. Don't know about you.

But come on: if you start an argument/debate/discussion, finish it or at least admit defeat.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018