Define "prog-lite"

cgw · 09-12-2012, 10:26 AM

Do bands like Boston, Kansas, Journey count as prog?
If not - can I call bands like Supertramp and Renaissance prog-lite? (a semi-rhetorical question)

Trollheart · 09-12-2012, 11:01 AM

Boston, Kansas, Journey are certainly not prog --- I believe two of them at least are seen as AOR (not sure about Kansas; some of their work might be seen as prog but I doubt you'd find them on any prog site).

Supertramp are often spoken of in the same breath as prog rock; certainly their earlier compositions like "It's a long road" and "Fool's overture" could be regarded as such, but later on they became quite commercial, say from "Breakfast in America" on, so for me they would not really be what I would think of as a prog rock band. Renaissance I don't know.

Never heard of prog-lite: if it's a subgenre you're trying to make up or assign, you'd need to define its parameters...

Edit: Progarchives.co.uk lists Kansas as "Symphonic prog", so maybe; though they also show Journey (JOURNEY!) as "prog related". Hmm. Other than their really early albums, I don't see it...

Unknown Soldier · 09-12-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Boston, Kansas, Journey are certainly not prog --- I believe two of them at least are seen as AOR (not sure about Kansas; some of their work might be seen as prog but I doubt you'd find them on any prog site).

Supertramp are often spoken of in the same breath as prog rock; certainly their earlier compositions like "It's a long road" and "Fool's overture" could be regarded as such, but later on they became quite commercial, say from "Breakfast in America" on, so for me they would not really be what I would think of as a prog rock band. Renaissance I don't know.

Never heard of prog-lite: if it's a subgenre you're trying to make up or assign, you'd need to define its parameters...

Edit: Progarchives.co.uk lists Kansas as "Symphonic prog", so maybe; though they also show Journey (JOURNEY!) as "prog related". Hmm. Other than their really early albums, I don't see it...

Shame on you, Kansas were very much prog in the 1970s.

Trollheart · 09-13-2012, 04:49 AM

Yeah I thought they might be but I haven't heard much of their output, except really for "Somewhere to elsewhere", which is a pretty damn fine album, so I wasn't really sure about them.

But come on: Boston? Journey? Where do these ideas come from???

cgw · 09-13-2012, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Never heard of prog-lite: if it's a subgenre you're trying to make up or assign, you'd need to define its parameters...

I am making up a definition. I'm just looking for opinions on what "prog" covers.

In my mind Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, Styx, Journey are all lumped togther (in a late 70's group of bands). Can I assume you are not calling Kansas prog (and not the others) just because they have a violin?

Trollheart · 09-13-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgw

I am making up a definition. I'm just looking for opinions on what "prog" covers.

In my mind Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, Styx, Journey are all lumped togther (in a late 70's group of bands). Can I assume you are not calling Kansas prog (and not the others) just because they have a violin?

Not at all. As it happens Unknown Soldier has pointed out that I am in fact wrong about them, and they are seen as prog. Boston, Foreigner, Styx and Journey however are generally accepted as AOR or melodic rock, but they would never be seen as any sort of prog. There is nothing of the tenets of prog in their songs: no long keyboard solos, no multi-part compositions, no lyrics about mythology: not even a flute!

Certain bands are accepted as being in particular genres, though some do cross over from one to the other. In the case of these four bands though, you are certainly barking up the wrong Wishing Tree....

Unknown Soldier · 09-13-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Yeah I thought they might be but I haven't heard much of their output, except really for "Somewhere to elsewhere", which is a pretty damn fine album, so I wasn't really sure about them.

But come on: Boston? Journey? Where do these ideas come from???

They were well past their best when that album came out and doesn't approach the quality of their 1970's work their "Golden Era"

Most of the AOR bands so of that era had superb musicians, who were on a par with any prog artists. Had Boston been around say 5 or 10 years earlier they probably would've been a prog band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgw

In my mind Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, Styx, Journey are all lumped togther (in a late 70's group of bands). Can I assume you are not calling Kansas prog (and not the others) just because they have a violin?

A lot of this is open to interpretation, but I'd rank the bands above as follows. In fact to make things even more confusing, when I talk about all my favourite AOR bands, I usually call them just soft rock bands or even west coast rock.

Prog rock- I'm sure you know what this is

Pomp rock- Condensed prog that is streamlined. Often called Arena Rock to confuse people even more. Was only really used in the 1970s.
AOR- Fusion of soft rock and hard rock, based on melody but the power was there. Heavily produced to provide commercial appeal.

Kansas- Prog then later AOR
Boston- AOR
Foreigner- AOR
Styx- Prog/Pomp then around 79 became an AOR band.
Journey- The early stuff with Greg Rolie was art rock/prog rock before becoming an AOR band.

In answer to your earlier question. Only Kansas were an out and out prog rock band.

cgw · 09-13-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Journey- The early stuff with Greg Rolie was art rock/prog rock before becoming an AOR band.

What is the difference between prog and art rock???
I've always called what I thought was prog "art rock".

Guybrush · 10-09-2012, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Had Boston been around say 5 or 10 years earlier they probably would've been a prog band.

Could very well be, but I'm a bit sceptical as their debut features music dating back to 1969, even if what you hear on the record is of course recorded much later. They were very much rock musicians during the prog era so they could've latched on to it if they'd had the interest.

I'm glad they went the route they did, though. Their debut is such a hard rock classic.

Unknown Soldier · 10-09-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Could very well be, but I'm a bit sceptical as their debut features music dating back to 1969, even if what you hear on the record is of course recorded much later. They were very much rock musicians during the prog era so they could've latched on to it if they'd had the interest.

I'm glad they went the route they did, though. Their debut is such a hard rock classic.

What I exactly meant, was if the band had been around several years earlier they may well have been a prog band, given the detail and attention that they put into their music.

You're quite right though, their debut album was heavily fused with classic rock n roll and is probably one of the few AOR albums that hard rockers can really enjoy.

09-12-2012, 10:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
cgw Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 51	Define "prog-lite" Do bands like Boston, Kansas, Journey count as prog? If not - can I call bands like Supertramp and Renaissance prog-lite? (a semi-rhetorical question)

09-12-2012, 11:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Boston, Kansas, Journey are certainly not prog --- I believe two of them at least are seen as AOR (not sure about Kansas; some of their work might be seen as prog but I doubt you'd find them on any prog site). Supertramp are often spoken of in the same breath as prog rock; certainly their earlier compositions like "It's a long road" and "Fool's overture" could be regarded as such, but later on they became quite commercial, say from "Breakfast in America" on, so for me they would not really be what I would think of as a prog rock band. Renaissance I don't know. Never heard of prog-lite: if it's a subgenre you're trying to make up or assign, you'd need to define its parameters... Edit: Progarchives.co.uk lists Kansas as "Symphonic prog", so maybe; though they also show Journey (JOURNEY!) as "prog related". Hmm. Other than their really early albums, I don't see it... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

09-13-2012, 04:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Yeah I thought they might be but I haven't heard much of their output, except really for "Somewhere to elsewhere", which is a pretty damn fine album, so I wasn't really sure about them. But come on: Boston? Journey? Where do these ideas come from??? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018