The Prog Rock Album Club

Unknown Soldier · 06-04-2013, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophonic Tonic

So... did I jump the gun by reviewing Ambrosia?

You sure reviewed it quickly, but it's always good that somebody does. Most albums take around 2 weeks to get reviewed and we are now in the second week and I'll do my review in the next couple of days. I expect everybody else would've done theirs by Sunday.

Big Ears · 06-04-2013, 05:44 AM

1. What were your VERY FIRST impressions on listening to the album, say from the first five minutes in?

It is unusual to open an album with a lyric from someone outside the band, but Ambrosia has Nice, Nice, Very Nice, written in collaboration with American author, Kurt Vonnegut (adapted from the Bokononist Hymn on the second page of his novel, Cat's Cradle, published in 1963). Like many list poems, it makes an effective lyric, with references to seemingly unconnected characters, such as the lion hunter, a Chinese dentist and the British Queen. The song has a vocal arrangement similar to the British and Californian psychedelia groups of the mid-to-late sixties, with flowing harmonies and a relaxed intonation. Lead singer David Pack uses a calypso delivery, with rolling consonents, in keeping with Vonnegut's novel, which is set on the fictional Caribbean island of San Lorenzo. The track itself starts with hi-hat and open chords, developing into the instrumentation of early Yes. There are Spanish guitar parts, guitar and keyboard solos remniscent of Howe and Banks, and a Keith Emerson-style brass fanfare on synthesizer. According to Classics Rock, a website devoted to literary references in rock music, Vonnegut was pleased with the results and it certainly makes a sprightly opener.

2. What did you think of the opening tracks?

Time Waits for No-one also has a percussive intro, with more Spanish guitar - a trademark of the group. Punchy acoustic guitar creates a Groundhogs-type riff, while the band's own lyrics are sung in a less mannered but equally strong technique. David Pack is clearly a capable lead singer. Variety comes in the form of complex harmonies, touches of jazz guitar with piano, hand claps (Alan Parsons?) and whooping. Added to these is a guitar solo which sounds like Alan Parsons Project alumnus, Ian Bairnson. Hold On to Yesterday continues the Steely Dan jazz feel, before a lilting vocal over piano and organ, along with excellent harmonies, creates an atmosphere reminiscent of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon (that was also engineered by Alan Parsons). An instrumental passage combines guitar with mellotron strings, while there is another distinctive Ian Bairnson-sounding guitar solo. Overall, Hold On to Yesterday is a brilliantly constructed piece and is one of the best tracks on the album. It gives the impression that, although credited as engineer, Alan Parsons had a hand in the production. Hold On to Yesterday's influence extends to Celtish-inspired British rock bands such as Love & Money and Mostly Autumn.

3. What did you think of the later tracks?

As the title sugests, World Leave Me Alone is a blues track with loud acoustic guitar and plenty of reverb. Pack provides a superb guitar solo and an unexpected phased vocal. The intro to Make Us All Aware makes good use of stereo and the production with grand piano and bass drum sounds like Rupert Holmes's for John Miles' Zaragon. Beach Boys harmonies give way to harpsichord psychedelia before segueing into clean synths and piano. Ambrosia's token slow ballad is the short Lover Arrive, which sounds a bit like Simon and Garfunkel. In Mama Frog, the band have attempted to write a nonsense verse, along the lines of Lewis Carroll's The Jabberwocky, hence its inclusion as a reading, along with curious synthesizer and percussion effects, before the end of the track. Strangely, Mama Frog is a near perfect impersonation of Captain Beyond, in jazz mode, and would have been better if the song and poem were separate. Indeed, The Jabberwocky (’Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre And gimble in the wabe) serves little purpose other than to give attention to a great writer, carry the AP mark and fill a gap.

If Hold On to Yesterday is a great track, Drink of Water is a minor masterpiece on which to close the album. It is a symphonic piece with plaintive voice and organ, big Fifth Dimension chorus, soaring guitar solo and melodic instrumental passage. The ending is nicely unpredictable and the group finish on a high point with their best track.

4. Did you like the vocalist? Hate him/her? Any impressions?

David Pack is an excellent singer, similar to the great Brad Delp.

5. Did the music (only) generally appeal to you, or not?

There are not any instrumentals, although they may have been a good idea. Curiously, all the tracks are relatively short too.

6. Did the album get better or worse as you listened to it (first time)?

It is consistently strong throughout, although the reading of The Jabberwocky sounds like filler.

7. What did you think of the lyrical content?

Using words by Kurt Vonnegut and Lewis Carroll implies a reluctance to come up with their own lyrics, but the band's songs are fine. Maybe there were time pressures.

8. Did you like the instrumental parts?

David Pack is not just a strong singer, but can play guitar and keyboards to a high standard. Keyboard player Christopher North is no slouch either. Credit should go to the rhythm section for always avoiding the obvious.

9. What did you think of the production?

Typical of American AOR and progressive rock bands of the time, Ambrosia is clean, but not at all sterile. The album was produced by luxury studio owner Freddie Piro and engineered by Alan Parsons. The latter's mark is all over this album, but when he took control of the next record it was slightly less dynamic. So, Piro may be due credit for the compelling and driving nature of Ambrosia.

10. How well do you already know the band/artist?

In the seventies, I thought Ambrosia were a mushy AOR group, like REO Speedwagon, Chicago or Journey with Steve Perry, and on this basis I never gave them a second hearing . . . until now. In fairness, I know little about REO Speedwagon, while Chicago and Journey were exciting in the early days. Having ignored them for so long, this album is a revelation to me.

11. What sub-genre, if any, would you assign this music to?

American progressive rock with an AOR feel.

12. On repeated listens, did you find you liked the album more, or less?

It just keeps getting better.

13. What would you class as your favourite track, if you have one?

Drink of Water, followed very closely by Hold On to Yesterday

14. And the one you liked least?

The reading of The Jabberwocky. It is far from terrible, but is unnecessary.

15. Did the fact that this album is a debut/sophomore/middle period or later period allow it, in your mind, any leeway, and if so, was that decision justified or vindicated?

Some bands, like Captain Beyond for example, appear with a flourish. Ambrosia are the same in that the debut is so strong, they must have struggled to meet their own high standards. So, in short, the answer is no.

16. Are you now looking forward to hearing other albums by the band/artist?

Definitely. So far I have heard the second album several times and it has all the elements, including some magnificent standouts, but lacks the drive of album one. David Pack's solo album of 1985, as one would expect, has fine songs and vocal performances, but the eighties production is one of the worst examples I have ever heard.

17. Did you get, thematically, the idea behind the album if there was one?

Insofar as Alan Parsons seemed to be trying to make his own album.

18. Did the album end well?

Extremely well. Drink of Water is a great track, but it also has an unpredictable ending.

19. Do you see any way the album could have been improved?

Only in that they should have had more of their own songs.

20. Do you think the album hung together well, ie was a fully cohesive unit, or was it a bit hit-and-miss?

The criticisms are minor and Ambrosia is an astonishing album with few weaknesses.

Overall Album Rating: 9.0 out of 10. I was going to give it 8.75, but hearing this is like ignoring a girl at school and finding she blossomed as an adult and was with someone else.

Unknown Soldier · 06-06-2013, 12:20 PM

1. What were your VERY FIRST impressions on listening to the album, say from the first five minutes in?

Of how diverse the band were musically and I wasn't quite expecting the Caribbean flavour on the opening song either. There was a good harmonious feel to the vocals as well and the album had an off-beat AOR meets progressive rock feel from its start.

2. What did you think of the opening tracks?

"Nice Nice, Very Nice" may have been a bit too offbeat for an opening track and its musical style reminded me in some way to the type of thing that Spock's Beard could put out. "Time Waits for No One" as EP said had a Yes feel about it and what I refer to a breezy British sound of the early 1970s but never in a really flowing manner, but that didn't detract from it in any way..

3. What did you think of the later tracks?

"Make Us All Aware" generally starts of as safe sounding track and has a melodic warm feel about it and some diverse bits added in and the type of track that I really like. "Lover Arrive" is one of the best tracks on the album and "Drink of Water" is a strong closing track.

4. Did you like the vocalist? Hate him/her? Any impressions?

As ET said I saw all three artists labelled as the vocalists but then saw that David Pack was the lead vocalist. The vocals are good but I wouldn't put Dave Pack on the same level as say Brad Delp that had been mentioned by Big Ears.

5. Did the music (only) generally appeal to you, or not?

Defintely impressed me and initially I thought the album was going to be one of those offerings where despite the musical diversity on board, most of the tracks would end up sounding like a compilation album rather than one focused album, but amazingly the whole thing sounded like just one album.

6. Did the album get better or worse as you listened to it (first time)?

First time I wasn't overly impressed, the second I was impressed and it's an album that offers so much to the listener.

7. What did you think of the lyrical content?

The song titles were quite boring in terms of the quality of the music but the lyrics I noticed had some clever twists here and there.

8. Did you like the instrumental parts?

Couldn't fault it and I'd say the keyboards really stood out for me here.

9. What did you think of the production?

One of the album's highlights and Alan Parsons certainly had his stamp on this album and brought the best out on an AOR meets prog band.

10. How well do you already know the band/artist?

I just knew their third album which I haven't heard in more than 10 years.

11. What sub-genre, if any, would you assign this music to?

Pogressive rock with a strong AOR slant, a style that was quite popular at the time with US bands but I have to say few did them as well as this complex wise.

12. On repeated listens, did you find you liked the album more, or less?

I mentioned this earlier so yes a strong yes here.

13. What would you class as your favourite track, if you have one?

Tracks I like are "Holding On To Yesterday" which has the trappings of a great 1970s commercial sounding track. "Lover Arrive" and "Drink of Water"

14. And the one you liked least?

There was nothing bad on the album but I guess "Mama Frog" was the song that felt out of place on the album.

15. Did the fact that this album is a debut/sophomore/middle period or later period allow it, in your mind, any leeway, and if so, was that decision justified or vindicated?

Didn't initially feel like a debut at all, as it seemed too contrived but then on a second listen the spontaneity of certain aspects of it could pass for a very accomplished debut album.

16. Are you now looking forward to hearing other albums by the band/artist?

This complex blending of AOR and prog is not overly my thing, I normally prefer the two styles seperate or at least offered in an easier listening tone such as Kansas and Styx. But I'd say of its style I can't imagine too many other albums around this time being better than this.

17. Did you get, thematically, the idea behind the album if there was one?

Didn't notice one, but that's not say that there wasn't one.

18. Did the album end well?

"Drink of Water" is a slowish finishing track and worked really well.

19. Do you see any way the album could have been improved?

Not really as its diversity was its saviour and strength.

20. Do you think the album hung together well, ie was a fully cohesive unit, or was it a bit hit-and-miss?

I think its cohesiveness as I mentioned earlier as its really strong point, it's actually a real skill to present an album of great instrumentation and diversity and then get it to hang together really well as one cohesive album. Just yesterday I was listening to Lucifer's Friend third album I'm Just a Rock N Roll Singer which is an album that is ruined by its lack of cohesiveness, despite its obvious initial qualities.

Overall Album Rating:

Very Impressive 8.5 out of 10

Big Ears · 06-06-2013, 02:54 PM

No-one compares to Drap Delp; I think he is the best American rock singer. I just meant David Pack is similar in style and better than most of that ilk.

Do you like Lucifer's Friend, US? I am a John Lawton (with Uriah Heep) fan, but I cannot get into Lucifer's Friend at all.

Unknown Soldier · 06-06-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Ears

No-one compares to Drap Delp; I think he is the best American rock singer.

Yer he's great but I'd say Steve Perry, Jimi Jameson and especially Bobby Kimball were even better, but then again all four offered something different.

Quote:

Do you like Lucifer's Friend, US? I am a John Lawton (with Uriah Heep) fan, but I cannot get into Lucifer's Friend at all.

I love the debut which is a dark proto-metal release and Banquet which is easily their best and most cohesive proggy release but the rest of their stuff never quite cuts it, but John Lawton is a great vocalist and he suited Uriah Heep well when he joined, despite being very different in style to Dave Byron.

Big Ears · 06-08-2013, 01:04 AM

Yes, Bobby Kimball is good - I even liked the Far Corporation.

Unknown Soldier · 06-08-2013, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Ears

Yes, Bobby Kimball is good - I even liked the Far Corporation.

I always liked Far Corporation and I always think of myself as the only person on the planet that likes their cover of "Stairway to Heaven" Bobby Kimball brought a power to the end of the song that Robert Plant just didn't have in his voice.

Big Ears · 06-08-2013, 07:25 AM

I would like to hear Bobby Kimball sing Stairway to Heaven with Led Zeppelin.

Unknown Soldier · 06-08-2013, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Ears

I would like to hear Bobby Kimball sing Stairway to Heaven with Led Zeppelin.

He's a Toto man and not a Led Zeppelin man, not sure if I could see that working.

Big Ears · 06-08-2013, 09:20 AM

Okay, with Back Country Communion?

06-04-2013, 05:44 AM	#402 (permalink)
Big Ears Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 434	1. What were your VERY FIRST impressions on listening to the album, say from the first five minutes in? It is unusual to open an album with a lyric from someone outside the band, but Ambrosia has Nice, Nice, Very Nice, written in collaboration with American author, Kurt Vonnegut (adapted from the Bokononist Hymn on the second page of his novel, Cat's Cradle, published in 1963). Like many list poems, it makes an effective lyric, with references to seemingly unconnected characters, such as the lion hunter, a Chinese dentist and the British Queen. The song has a vocal arrangement similar to the British and Californian psychedelia groups of the mid-to-late sixties, with flowing harmonies and a relaxed intonation. Lead singer David Pack uses a calypso delivery, with rolling consonents, in keeping with Vonnegut's novel, which is set on the fictional Caribbean island of San Lorenzo. The track itself starts with hi-hat and open chords, developing into the instrumentation of early Yes. There are Spanish guitar parts, guitar and keyboard solos remniscent of Howe and Banks, and a Keith Emerson-style brass fanfare on synthesizer. According to Classics Rock, a website devoted to literary references in rock music, Vonnegut was pleased with the results and it certainly makes a sprightly opener. 2. What did you think of the opening tracks? Time Waits for No-one also has a percussive intro, with more Spanish guitar - a trademark of the group. Punchy acoustic guitar creates a Groundhogs-type riff, while the band's own lyrics are sung in a less mannered but equally strong technique. David Pack is clearly a capable lead singer. Variety comes in the form of complex harmonies, touches of jazz guitar with piano, hand claps (Alan Parsons?) and whooping. Added to these is a guitar solo which sounds like Alan Parsons Project alumnus, Ian Bairnson. Hold On to Yesterday continues the Steely Dan jazz feel, before a lilting vocal over piano and organ, along with excellent harmonies, creates an atmosphere reminiscent of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon (that was also engineered by Alan Parsons). An instrumental passage combines guitar with mellotron strings, while there is another distinctive Ian Bairnson-sounding guitar solo. Overall, Hold On to Yesterday is a brilliantly constructed piece and is one of the best tracks on the album. It gives the impression that, although credited as engineer, Alan Parsons had a hand in the production. Hold On to Yesterday's influence extends to Celtish-inspired British rock bands such as Love & Money and Mostly Autumn. 3. What did you think of the later tracks? As the title sugests, World Leave Me Alone is a blues track with loud acoustic guitar and plenty of reverb. Pack provides a superb guitar solo and an unexpected phased vocal. The intro to Make Us All Aware makes good use of stereo and the production with grand piano and bass drum sounds like Rupert Holmes's for John Miles' Zaragon. Beach Boys harmonies give way to harpsichord psychedelia before segueing into clean synths and piano. Ambrosia's token slow ballad is the short Lover Arrive, which sounds a bit like Simon and Garfunkel. In Mama Frog, the band have attempted to write a nonsense verse, along the lines of Lewis Carroll's The Jabberwocky, hence its inclusion as a reading, along with curious synthesizer and percussion effects, before the end of the track. Strangely, Mama Frog is a near perfect impersonation of Captain Beyond, in jazz mode, and would have been better if the song and poem were separate. Indeed, The Jabberwocky (’Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre And gimble in the wabe) serves little purpose other than to give attention to a great writer, carry the AP mark and fill a gap. If Hold On to Yesterday is a great track, Drink of Water is a minor masterpiece on which to close the album. It is a symphonic piece with plaintive voice and organ, big Fifth Dimension chorus, soaring guitar solo and melodic instrumental passage. The ending is nicely unpredictable and the group finish on a high point with their best track. 4. Did you like the vocalist? Hate him/her? Any impressions? David Pack is an excellent singer, similar to the great Brad Delp. 5. Did the music (only) generally appeal to you, or not? There are not any instrumentals, although they may have been a good idea. Curiously, all the tracks are relatively short too. 6. Did the album get better or worse as you listened to it (first time)? It is consistently strong throughout, although the reading of The Jabberwocky sounds like filler. 7. What did you think of the lyrical content? Using words by Kurt Vonnegut and Lewis Carroll implies a reluctance to come up with their own lyrics, but the band's songs are fine. Maybe there were time pressures. 8. Did you like the instrumental parts? David Pack is not just a strong singer, but can play guitar and keyboards to a high standard. Keyboard player Christopher North is no slouch either. Credit should go to the rhythm section for always avoiding the obvious. 9. What did you think of the production? Typical of American AOR and progressive rock bands of the time, Ambrosia is clean, but not at all sterile. The album was produced by luxury studio owner Freddie Piro and engineered by Alan Parsons. The latter's mark is all over this album, but when he took control of the next record it was slightly less dynamic. So, Piro may be due credit for the compelling and driving nature of Ambrosia. 10. How well do you already know the band/artist? In the seventies, I thought Ambrosia were a mushy AOR group, like REO Speedwagon, Chicago or Journey with Steve Perry, and on this basis I never gave them a second hearing . . . until now. In fairness, I know little about REO Speedwagon, while Chicago and Journey were exciting in the early days. Having ignored them for so long, this album is a revelation to me. 11. What sub-genre, if any, would you assign this music to? American progressive rock with an AOR feel. 12. On repeated listens, did you find you liked the album more, or less? It just keeps getting better. 13. What would you class as your favourite track, if you have one? Drink of Water, followed very closely by Hold On to Yesterday 14. And the one you liked least? The reading of The Jabberwocky. It is far from terrible, but is unnecessary. 15. Did the fact that this album is a debut/sophomore/middle period or later period allow it, in your mind, any leeway, and if so, was that decision justified or vindicated? Some bands, like Captain Beyond for example, appear with a flourish. Ambrosia are the same in that the debut is so strong, they must have struggled to meet their own high standards. So, in short, the answer is no. 16. Are you now looking forward to hearing other albums by the band/artist? Definitely. So far I have heard the second album several times and it has all the elements, including some magnificent standouts, but lacks the drive of album one. David Pack's solo album of 1985, as one would expect, has fine songs and vocal performances, but the eighties production is one of the worst examples I have ever heard. 17. Did you get, thematically, the idea behind the album if there was one? Insofar as Alan Parsons seemed to be trying to make his own album. 18. Did the album end well? Extremely well. Drink of Water is a great track, but it also has an unpredictable ending. 19. Do you see any way the album could have been improved? Only in that they should have had more of their own songs. 20. Do you think the album hung together well, ie was a fully cohesive unit, or was it a bit hit-and-miss? The criticisms are minor and Ambrosia is an astonishing album with few weaknesses. Overall Album Rating: 9.0 out of 10. I was going to give it 8.75, but hearing this is like ignoring a girl at school and finding she blossomed as an adult and was with someone else. __________________ My Journal: Rabbiting On

06-06-2013, 02:54 PM	#404 (permalink)
Big Ears Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 434	No-one compares to Drap Delp; I think he is the best American rock singer. I just meant David Pack is similar in style and better than most of that ilk. Do you like Lucifer's Friend, US? I am a John Lawton (with Uriah Heep) fan, but I cannot get into Lucifer's Friend at all. __________________ My Journal: Rabbiting On

06-08-2013, 01:04 AM	#406 (permalink)
Big Ears Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 434	Yes, Bobby Kimball is good - I even liked the Far Corporation. __________________ My Journal: Rabbiting On

06-08-2013, 07:25 AM	#408 (permalink)
Big Ears Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 434	I would like to hear Bobby Kimball sing Stairway to Heaven with Led Zeppelin. __________________ My Journal: Rabbiting On

06-08-2013, 09:20 AM	#410 (permalink)
Big Ears Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 434	Okay, with Back Country Communion? __________________ My Journal: Rabbiting On