..and Porcupine Tree are virtually a Prog Metal band now! Oh Well, maybe I should do a prog Metal poll :D

Yeah, I would. They're somewhat heavy, but their music is quite spacey/progressive for the most part, and if you listen carefully you'll catch other kinds of influences as well. :p:

What's strange to me, though, is that they formed in Dallas, TX. :crazy:

I agree, and who said a band sucked just because they don't have the best musicians? I surely didn't.

I like Tool, a lot. Adam Jones is an underrated guitarist, certainly not the best. Carey is great, but he's not the best prog drummer, that's just my opinion, though if we're talking technical skill wise, it's also a fact.

I probably wouldn't call PT any particular kind of prog, they mix many styles and metal is just one of them, they are in a bit of a metal phase right now but they're a constantly evolving band. Their early material is more space rock, their late 90s/early 00s stuff is more melodic prog.

I know but when people say "I pick this band cuz they have the best drummer" to me it comes across as them not taking the music completely into account.

I agree, I havent heard a Jazz or jazz-rock group without an insane drummer; john marshall, elvin jones, jack dejhonette, tony williams, the list goes on.

As a matter of fact, pretty much all of the jazz/jazz-rock musicians are amazing.

But I had asked about Tool, because I was a little bit suprised that I was the only one here who voted for them so far...

A lot of prog bands aren't too pretentious. My problem with Tool is the whole thing about the way they do their albums and how they decide not to do anything on stage so people can focus on the music. Plus, Maynard's a ****.


It isn't. Too much is a turn off though.

Also, I still would like to ask for the mention of Pure Reason Revolution:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Dark_Third.jpg

I meant to vote TMV, but I since they are winning I guess I can bear picking Coheed.

This isn't really a competition, just a gauge of the board's tastes.

Ocean-fucking-size.

Battles comes in a close second though.

I really enjoy Coheed and Cambria's music. I have seen them in concert a few times, they put on a good show. Also i really like the story line behind the music, and how the comic books came out before the band did. Claudio created a new dimension of the musical back story that (as far as i know) has not been done to that degree before them.

PT for me, although having heard almost their entire studio discography, i'm a bit biased. :)

also, i'm not that into Coheed and Cambria, tbh. their stuff is prog-influenced, but alot of the time it seems like they're just going the motions and not really exploring music-wise.

Coheed is an odd one, tough to catagorize.

Like TMV they mix prog and post-hardcore influences, and I consider TMV prog, and C&C remind me more of Rush than any hardcore band.

So I'd say they're prog.

I picked Tool, obviously. They're easily my favourite band and I love how they lapse into traces of art rock and that crazy term that someone coined 'math rock.' I think every single member of Tool has something pretty amazing to offer, and yeah, I just absolutely love everything about them. Their musical ability ability just blows my mind.

From that list I also love and appreciate The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree, and Oceansize... some of my favourite bands are up there. I like new prog, a lot, and can't understand sometimes why it receives so much criticism.

Well math rock is usually used to describe indie bands like Slint and Don Caballero.

Though you can certainly call Tool mathematical.

Btw have you ever heard anything by King Crimson? They're a band I'm always trying to get people into. They have opened for Tool on some occasions and Tool consider them one of if not their biggest influence, I'd say they've had a strong influence on TMV as well.

This is what Maynard said about them.

"I think it was an honor for us. For our fans, it was something like an education. A lot of our fans weren't really aware where we were coming from, what inspired us. I find it a bit sad. I think to share one stage with King Crimson was important. It showed where our roots are, where we are coming from. After all, in today's music scene every band seems to steal from other bands. They're all stealing from each other and they all claim to be the originals. I think it's limiting – limiting for the bands and for the listener."

"For me, being on stage with King Crimson is like Lenny Kravitz playing with Led Zeppelin, or Britney Spears onstage with Debbie Gibson."

:D

Yeah, I suppose math rock is most commonly used to describe bands like Don Caballero, Slint, Minus the Bear even...

I guess I should've said simply that I love the mathematical element of Tool.

King Crimson is totally a band you need to check out then.

So boobs do you like C&C?

Also. I really can't decide on this one. TMV, Coheed, Porcupine Tree, Kayo Dot, it's all so good!

seconded. Lateralus, you don't know what you're missing

Personally, it is a really close call between Kayo Dot and TMV and purely as I have only listened to Kayo Dot once and TMV tons, TMV get the vote for now.

Haven't heard anything from the last two, but the rest really doesn't entertain me.

crimson is good.

far as new prog goes, i think it's one of the most uninteresting genres on the market. i am yet to come across one song that does not sound like a standard run-of-the-mill 70s prog ape-show, and even the "flagship" bands like porcupine tree are in reality plain carbon rip-offs of pink floyd and genesis.

the pink floyd influence on porcupine tree is so stark it is frankly frightening

really? i can't see the connection to Pink Floyd or Genesis at all. the King Crimson influence is palpable, but that's in part because Wilson actually played with Bruford and Fripp.

i can definately see the Pink Floyd influence, not so much Genesis or KC though

For gods sake, do you log in to this forum JUST to diss modern prog?

How would you feel if I did that with all the crappy avant indie you listen to? And believe me you're really inspiring me to do that.

If you confuse PT albums with Floyd albums, you're clearly losing your hearing. Influence =/= Ripping off. PT have a lot of influences and every album is somewhat different from the last, you clearly have heard very little from them besides their earliest material I assume.

And besides, I think much worse of the music you listen to, talentless post punk ripoffs as far as the eye can see.

With the exception of maybe The Flower Kings, I don't know how you could confuse any of the bands in this poll with their 70s prog ancesters, it's like, goddamn, you can't be a prog band that's influenced by other prog bands? Give me a f*cking break.

Most of these bands have more than just prog influences and any idiot can hear that.

I do sympathise with Rainard Jalen - I've heard a lot of Porcupine Tree, and what I've heard doesn't sound like Prog to me. Same goes for The Flower Kings. I think the music is rather run-of-the-mill, but I wouldn't say it apes Classic Prog - the whole idea of creating new music is lost in the haze of simply trying to create new-sounding music.

Voted for Muse - they at least sound a bit proggy, and write music that goes along with a few of Prog's principles; It's outrageously bombastic, rips off Classical music at any given opportunity, and isn't always a bunch of simple riffs in a pop song format. Note: isn't always...

I like the Ozrics - I played bass for them once... :D

I really don't find Muse to be prog at all... :confused:
I mean it's true that they have classical influence and are bombastic at times but I've never ever really identified with them as progressive.

I did say "a bit proggy" - and if Rick Wakeman agrees with me, then surely that says something!

It's not just Rick -the media at large seem to have lumped them in with Prog;

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle5597741.ece


Prog, as in the music of King Crimson, Gentle Giant et al. doesn't really exist any more as far as I can tell - what is called Prog now is just some standard rock music that sounds a bit proggy and has stupidly long instrumentals based on a handful of chords - like Krautrock, which is not a form of Prog, but something entirely different that evolved around the same time, inspired by guess who... yup. Pink Floyd mainly! Interestingly, PInk Floyd often come up for debate as to whether they are a "proper" Prog band or not, so beingn *inspired* by them does not mean you play Prog!


On Metallica's early albums, the band used the same riff development technique used by King Crimson on "In The Court of the Crimson King", specifically in "21st Century Schizoid Man", yet Metallica do not sound like King Crimson. Does this make Metallica a Prog band?


What about other modern "Prog" bands - which, if any, are actually progressive?

More importantly, how?

Which simply have a sound, and which actually do interesting, developmental (ie progressive) things with the music that makes it new music rather than music that sounds new(ish)?


I'd say very few - hence Muse have as much right as any band around now to be called Prog. Especially with the much-touted Prog epic "Knights of Cydonia" on their last album, and the 3-part "Exogenesis Symphony" which will be on the new album "The Resistance".

Well, as I happen to be in the middle of working on an Essential Guide to Modern Progressive Rock, I suppose you'll find out soon enough which bands out there are actually progressing...no?

Probably not - unless your guide actually discusses the music.

I've read so many articles and guides etc. and none actually tell the truth about the music - words like "complex" and "progressive" crop up with no substantiation.

I worked on the Wikipedia entry on "Classic" Prog for ages trying to get it to an accurate and verifiable state. It's probably been vandalised again, coz I haven't looked at it for ages - but I never could get anyone to help with Modern Prog, and I'm beginning to think that the reason is that Modern Prog is just a style of ordinary rock music, undeserving of the Prog prefix.

Not bad music - just not Prog.

I'd be really interested to read your article - apologies for being skeptical, but I'm bored of flowery tributes that merely exist to praise favourite bands, and would like something technical that actually informs me - which I'm sure yours will do :)

Well, although I can't guarantee it's going to change your mind or anything, what I'm writing is basically a technical overview of sorts, using 11 albums as guideposts, of how progressive rock has interacted with various modern approaches and the various results of that interaction, along with clarifying why most bands who embrace the "prog." label aren't really doing justice to the term.

IOW: don't be expecting Spock's Beard or any neo-prog. :D

That seems inline with my own perception of the music - I would like to know how Modern Prog bands justify the "Prog" label.

Who knows, we might be able to get something meaningful and useful in the Modern Prog section on Wikipedia as a result - I mean something fair to the bands of both eras, but not the existing nonsense which reads more like a laundry list of who has played it, and goes nowhere towards explaining the music.

It's supposed to - after all, it's an encyclopaedia entry, innit?

If there are any experts on "Neo" Prog and "Prog" Metal, we could get those nailed too - and not before time :D

best Ozric Tentacles album to start with?

I voted for Porcupine Tree, they are one of the few new prog bands that actually compare to older prog quality-wise. Btw why isn't Opeth on here? They can be considered prog, right?

I don't think Opeth are Prog - don't hear it myself.

So Mr. Eater, it's been a while .. when will we see this writeup? Post it already!

I started with Erpland, great album. You will also enjoy their newer stuff, I really like The Yum Yum Tree.
And yes, I voted for Ozric Tentacles =).

thanks:band:

Opeth are certainly prog, and are a very talented band although not really my cup of tea. Another band that could potentially be included would be Pure Reason Revolution. I have only got their first album but it was fantastically colorful and atmospheric music if a bit lacking in depth and structure. I voted for PT because they are absolutely fantastic. The Incident is well worth a listen. Don't pay attention to the Fear of a Blank Planet fans who rate it poorly it is their best work since In Absentia.

You seem pretty sure of that - could you expand and enlighten those of us that simply don't get it and think they're nothing more than a somewhat unsophisticated metal band with keyboards?

I voted for Tool. Great band. I don't like Coheed and Cambria, Muse or The Mars Volta, but the rest are decent to great. I think I prefer classic prog, though.

As for the Opeth question, I looked at the Wikipedia entry for progressive rock. Unusual song structures and weird time signatures? Check. Extended songs and long instrumental parts? Check. Non-traditional rock instruments? Check. Jazz and classical influences in the melody? Check. Concept albums? Check. They're progressive, allright.

They`re normally referred to on wiki as progressive death metal, thus meaning the heavier emphasis is on death metal, I`m not sure is this narrows down their progressive credentials. For the record, I always think of them as a progressive metal outfit and besides that, they`re a great band based on all the stuff I`ve heard.