Poppy prog vs other types: 1970s
 

I must admit not being particularly clued up on prog rock as a genre, but the types I am relatively familiar with are prog bands that are more on the poppy/melodic side of things - ya know, like Caravan and so forth. The whole sophisticated art rock sound/style with the clever layering and song structures but within a poppy framework. I find much of that stuff is comparable to (and clearly influenced by) the ideas contained in quite a bit of late late Bealtes material.

How do people feel about this style of prog? Positive thoughts, or a preference for 70s prog of a less melody-oriented style?


Also, anybody who knows a lot about the topic, please feel free to educate me (and everyone else not in the know so to speak) a bit on the distinction between such types of prog. Thx

Eh, I think it can be great, just like any other genre. It's just most of the groups aren't.

Dream theater is a given, theres also-

Jethro Tull
Queensryche
Fates Warning
King's X
Tool
King Diamond
Crimson Glory
Opeth
Liquid Tension Experiment

Although their music barely touched upon prog. Barclay James Harvest are one of the best bands to produce quality pop/rock that could appeal to both sets of fans. Many people say that they were The Beatles successors. The album Once Again is an absolute 70's gem.

Dream theater is a given, theres also-

Jethro Tull = Folk Rock
Queensryche = Metal (very good at that)
Fates Warning= yup Progressive Metal
King's X= I can't see a lot of prog in their music but they are a vastly underated band.
Tool=yup again!
King Diamond= Metal.Plain and simple.
Crimson Glory= Early stuff ditto.
Opeth= melodic death metal
Liquid Tension Experiment=Only band I have'nt heard.

Well, this genre is ridiculously broad, you have the New Wave influenced King Crimson 80's trio, the very beginning of Collins-led Genesis, Jethro Tull (To a certain extent) , then you have Prog-Metal bands like Dream Theater and Tool which tend to be 'testosterone-fueled' and much more accessible.

I'm thinking more of the 70s scene. I'm familiar with prog in the prog metal / Tool sense very well, but know virtually F-all about the origins of the music. What I have seen however is that some of those prog bands are incredibly poppy and melodic and make me think of the late Beatles.

Oh, you want to know the origins? Yah, The Beatles. I'll think of more later.

So I wasn't just imagining it? I was listening to Abbey Road yesterday for the first time in about 12 damn years, and so I got to the second side of the album. That whole deconstructionalist unfinished songs strung together thing from Sun King to Bathroom Window; and then the sequence of Golden Slumbers and Carry That Weight with the recall back to You Never Give Me Your Money, providing that whole faux-opera pseudo-concept effect... all seems to echo of the sophisticated pop/rock of the poppy side of prog that was to come in the early 70s, at least what I've heard of it.

Though the Beatles did it out of wild experimentation rather than trying to be arty....... then again, that would be getting into a discussion of intentions, which is pointless. I'm sure the prog bands didn't always take themselves too seriously, either.

Yah, taking a 'far-out' type of music, adding in textured guitars etc. Those same songs are also very influential on Power Pop. Least it seems that way to me.

So are you trying to find similar bands that experimented with a traditional pop record asthetic or are you comparing this with the classically influenced dense sound of say King Crimson?

70's poppy prog? Alan Parsons Project & Moody Blues & of course ELO - which was far more pop oriented than prog, but still was on the fence.

Tool is DEFINATELY not progressive metal. They are progressive rock/alternative rock at the most.

Opeth are not melodic death metal either. They are just progressive death metal.

TBH I don't care what half of those bands strictly are. It was a bad list concerning the original post. I did mean to put melodic semi aggressive alternative hardcore metal crossover hardcore punk rock metal themed anarcho dance inspired techno clowncore jumpover happy hardcore twice removed second cousin crap stained pop funk amalgamation themed chamber dancehall reggae influenced ska punk skater two tone jazz flecked blues ideals but I thought feck it.. let's break genre rules!

Even if Comus will disagree with me on this one, I think the Beatles were proto-prog. And despite what many people think, like you said, prog musicians don't necessarily take themselves that seriously - the Canterbury bands were humorous.

I'd say you get poppy prog bands in almost every type of prog. Bands like Caravan, Supertramp, Wishbone Ash, Kraftwerk, Rush, Peter Gabriel, ELO and Pink Floyd tend to be more accessible than their peers because of their pop/classic rock influences/sensibilities. Soft Machine and Caravan are both of the same Canterbury prog scene, but are vastly different in terms of accessibility.

I'd say that the style of 70s prog which contains the most poppy prog is the symphonic prog scene which encompasses bands like Genesis, Yes, early King Crimson, Marillion, Gentle Giant, Flower Kings, VDGG, BJH, Camel, Anglagard etc. Even if it isn't poppy, it's quite melodic.

I think that the closest you can get to good poppy prog (i.e. not 80s Yes/Genesis) is the Snow Goose by Camel. It was unusual in that it was a prog album full of 2-3 min songs. And it is good, but I do much prefer Mirage and Moonmadness by Camel... those are stellar albums from a great band.

Actually no, they are prog metal. They may not sound like any other band in that category but it dosen't change anything, prog metal is not defined by a distinctive sound since a lot of prog metal bands sound quite different from each other, if a band is both prog and metal, then viola, prog metal.

Anywho. Being a fan of pop music as well, gotta love prog with a dose of pop, unfortunately when people think "pop prog" they think Asia, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Caravan, BJH, 80s King Crimson, Spocks Beard and more recent stuff from Porcupine Tree. Thats the good stuff.

Theres also bands like Roxy Music and Super Furry Animals though weither they are truly prog is debatable, thats why I use the term Art Rock to describe bands that certainly make progressive music who could be considered prog, but could also fall into other genres of music.

Check out-

Camel
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Van der Graaf Generator
genesis
Gentle giant
The nice

You'll definitely like them.
Anyways, poppy or not, only thing that matters is whether you like it or not.
I actually do like many of the pop-prog bands.(I prefer prog. metal though)

Capability Browns From Scratch is the perfect example of a pop prog album, and is of course the perfect pop prog album.

ELP are certainly the most polarizing of prog bands, you either love em or hate em.

Anywho, some recommended 70s prog listening.

King Crimson: In the Wake of Poseidon, Lizard, Larks Tongue in Aspic, Starless & Bible Black, Red.
Yes: Time and a Word, The Yes Album, Fragile, Close to the Edge, Tales From Topographic Oceans (love it or hate it), Relayer, Going for the One.
Genesis: Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
ELP: Self titled debut, Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad Surgery.
Gentle Giant: Gentle Giant,Three Friends, Octopus, In a Glass House.
Jethro Tull: Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play.
Camel: Mirage, The Snow Goose.
Van der Graaf Generator: H to He Who Am the Only One, Pawn Hearts, Godbluff, Still Life.
Gong: Angels Egg, You.
Caravan: In the Land of Grey and Pink, For Girls who Grow Plump in the Night.
Hawkwind: In Search of Space, Space Ritual, Hall of the Mountain Grill, Warrior on the Edge of Time.
Uriah Heep: Demons & Wizards, The Magicians Birthday.
Magma: Magma, Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh.
Renaissance: Ashes Are Burning, Turn of the Cards.
Focus: Moving Waves, Focus III.
Barclay James Harvest: Time Honoured Ghosts, Octoberon.
The Strawbs: Bursting at the Seams.
Jade Warrior: Floating Worlds.
Nektar: Remember the Future.
Premiata Forneria Marconi: Storia Di Un Minuto.
Eloy: Ocean.
Gryphon: Red Queen to Gryphon Three.
Khan: Space Shanty.
Greenslade: Bedside Manners are Extra.

do people tend to see "art rock" and "prog" as more or less synonymous?


also on the topic of Tool, i think they're a good example of how the line between hard rock and metal can be quite blurry. my personal choice is to put them under metal for the (perhaps not so good) reason of the doomy aesthetic of their sound.

Art Rock is what we prog fans call what we can't pigeonhole into any prog sub-genres. Go to progarchives.com if you want in-depth stuff.