Frank Zappa Appreciation Thread

[Frownland]

Zappa intended it to be a ultra lengthy release but the studio made him spread it out across several albums (Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, and various bonus tracks). Some tracks are early variations from how they were originally released iirc. I'm partial to it because I think it flows really well and encompasses a lot of different sides of Zappa.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

I think you're rather projecting.

As I already stated, it took me a while (years) to arrive at my current position. I don't want FZ to have been sexist. However, I also don't want to be blind to it and either way I can't really unsee it.

I suggested you bring up some evidence to support your position. Seriously, I would like to be proven wrong. Having played with some of the guys isn't really much in the way of that.

Whereas I've provided sources for many of my claims, you seem to assume much about FZ's moral views and values. I think you're more guilty of projecting than I am.

What I've seen a few times now are attempts to veer the debate into philosophical discussion. I guess one of a couple of reasons you do this is because in a world where general attitudes towards sexism have changed, you have done some convoluted, philosophical mental gymnastics that allow your ideas about sexism to stay relatively unchanged. Those same or similar mental gymnastics can be used to defend FZ against attacks on his moral views. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.

Don't stunt your growth.

[Mucha na Dziko]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Zappa intended it to be an ultra lengthy release but the studio made him spread it out across several albums (Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favourites, and various bonus tracks).

that's about Läther?


Also, I've just been quite surprised: I've always thought that the album cover was this one

(as featured on spotify)

And yet when I just googled the album, this is what came up


Which one is the original one?

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Thread Nazis can gtfo.

I don't think you should call a MB member from Poland a "Nazi." That is just as in bad taste as your nonhumorous "Zyklon B" post. But hey you know you can do what you want and say what you want cause nothing will happen to you, and your "Nazi" jokes will only get worse.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

that's about Läther?

Which one is the original one?

Yes indeed.

The Zappa heart mother cover is the original, the other is from a 2012 reissue.

[Mucha na Dziko]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I don't think you should call a MB member from Poland a "Nazi."

Nah, I'm not that touchy. I thought of it like being called a "grammar nazi".
Still, thanks for standing up for me.

Btw I like the Keith Richards quote in your signature. Did he say it in some interview or is it one of those quotes that fly around the world without any source?

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I don't think you should call a MB member from Poland a "Nazi." That is just as in bad taste as your nonhumorous "Zyklon B" post. But hey you know you can do what you want and say what you want cause nothing will happen to you, and your "Nazi" jokes will only get worse.

Shut up, bitch.

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

Nah, I'm not that touchy. I thought of it like being called a "grammar nazi".
Still, thanks for standing up for me.

That's cool.

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

Btw I like the Keith Richards quote in your signature. Did he say it in some interview or is it one of those quotes that fly around the world without any source?

Probably the latter. I found it on a site for quotes.

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Shut up, bitch.

Well kiss my dupa.

[Mucha na Dziko]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Well kiss my dupa.

I see what you did there

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Context, non-verbal communication, and lots of other things. I'd never thought the forum's resident Autism Girl would ever get to explain these things to someone

So explain how you believe it works.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I'd like a thread of "Zappa Fans Who Disagree With Terrapin's Take On Meaning" please. Because I'm not remotely buying into this idea:-



"Five disgusting cockroaches" Does this term depend on what an individual has in mind? How can it mean anything except a precise number of insects that the speaker dislikes? If an individual has "three nice ponies" in mind, that's a misinterpretation; it's not, imo, an equally valid, subjective way to think about the term "five disgusting cockroaches".
(Examples of "five" not meaning 5 and "disgusting" used in a way that is not negatively judgemental would be appreciated, plus, for good measure, a subjective meaning for cockroach that is significantly different from what I'll find if I google "cockroach".)
__________________________________________________ _



I'm guilty of contributing to this underratement. I never listen to Läther, and I can't remember why.

We can do a semantics (philosophy of meaning) thread if you like, and I'll explain how meaning does and doesn't work for you, where you can argue with me all you like, and in infinite patience I'll keep working on your understanding until you finally do understand or until you give up, but maybe there's a more appropriate subforum for it here? Do we have an off-topic subforum?

Originally Posted by Frownland

Zappa intended it to be a ultra lengthy release but the studio made him spread it out across several albums (Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, and various bonus tracks). Some tracks are early variations from how they were originally released iirc. I'm partial to it because I think it flows really well and encompasses a lot of different sides of Zappa.

I've never bought that story, by the way.

Originally Posted by Guybrush

As I already stated, it took me a while (years) to arrive at my current position. I don't want FZ to have been sexist. However, I also don't want to be blind to it and either way I can't really unsee it.

I suggested you bring up some evidence to support your position. Seriously, I would like to be proven wrong. Having played with some of the guys isn't really much in the way of that.

Whereas I've provided sources for many of my claims, you seem to assume much about FZ's moral views and values. I think you're more guilty of projecting than I am.

What I've seen a few times now are attempts to veer the debate into philosophical discussion. I guess one of a couple of reasons you do this is because in a world where general attitudes towards sexism have changed, you have done some convoluted, philosophical mental gymnastics that allow your ideas about sexism to stay relatively unchanged. Those same or similar mental gymnastics can be used to defend FZ against attacks on his moral views. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.

Don't stunt your growth.

I already explained the problems with your scant sources. I can explain it again, although you'll just repeat the above again, of course.

There are serious philosophical problems with the views fueling the belief that sexism, racism, etc. are rampant at present. I'm more than happy to get into as detailed of a discussion about that as you'd like to get into. (But again, we should probably do it in an off-topic subforum if we have one.)