Frank Zappa Appreciation Thread

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Because a negative attitude towards enjoying sex and a negative attitude towards promiscuous women is totally the same thing

"Enjoying sex" doesn't mean "only in a traditional monogamous relationship" if we're talking about Zappa. He's not a Puritan like you folks seem to be.

Originally Posted by Guybrush

Butcher was upset when Zappa did not see her point of view. Something clicked in her mind when she saw feminist campaigners in the news. "I saw a banner that said: 'Love me less, respect me more.' And I just thought: 'Yes. That's it.'" Butcher read Kate Millett's Sexual Politics, which came as a revelation to her, as it did to many women at that time. Excitedly, she told Zappa what she had realised. "I thought he'd be sympathetic, but he wasn't, completely the opposite."[/i][/indent]

I have a completely positive view of sluttiness.

If I were to find anything offensive, it would be something like "Love me less, respect me more," because that suggests an anti-sex view to me, as if loving a woman (with sexual connotations to that) somehow amounts to not respecting them, which is complete bull****. I'm completely unsympathetic to anyone who equates sexual desire, male or female, especially re casual sex, with a lack of respect, with misogyny, etc.

Re Zappa alumni, I've worked with Ike Willis, Mike Keneally, Ed Mann, Tom and Bruce Fowler, Bobby Martin and Vinnie Colaiuta (mostly at different times, in different contexts).

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

"Enjoying sex" doesn't mean "only in a traditional monogamous relationship" if we're talking about Zappa. He's not a Puritan like you folks seem to be.

I'm sure he was fine with Gail sleeping around.

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

"Enjoying sex" doesn't mean "only in a traditional monogamous relationship" if we're talking about Zappa. He's not a Shaker like you folks seem to be.

^ ftfy

Puritans seem to procreate unlike the Shakers. If you don't the right words precisely then what you say is opened up to interpretation. You fall down in the relavist's rabbit hole.

edit: my LG pad's spell check WA $in beast mode. I absolutely hate it!

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

I'm sure he was fine with Gail sleeping around.

I have no idea. Probably only he and Gail knew for sure. And they're no longer around to tell us.

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

^ ftfy

Puritans seem to procreate unlike the Shakers. You you don't the right words precisely then what you stymie opened up to interpretation. You fall down in the relavist's rabbit whore.

I'm a relativist, genius.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

I have a completely positive view of sluttiness.

If I were to find anything offensive, it would be something like "Love me less, respect me more," because that suggests an anti-sex view to me, as if loving a woman (with sexual connotations to that) somehow amounts to not respecting them, which is complete bull****.

Is this about your views? I thought we were discussing Frank Zappa. I feel like you're simply avoiding some good evidence counter to your position on FZ.

Re Zappa alumni, I've worked with Ike Willis, Mike Keneally, Ed Mann, Tom and Bruce Fowler, Bobby Martin and Vinnie Colaiuta (mostly at different times, in different contexts).

That's really cool

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

Is this about your views? I thought we were discussing Frank Zappa. I feel like you're simply avoiding some good evidence counter to your position on FZ.

I'm explaining how the reaction against "Love me less, respect me more" indicates nothing about value judgments of sluttiness.

[Marie Monday]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

"Enjoying sex" doesn't mean "only in a traditional monogamous relationship" if we're talking about Zappa. He's not a Puritan like you folks seem to be.

That's not what I was claiming at all. I was pointing out that you can enjoy having lots of sex, monogamously or not, and still shame women for doing so. It's called hypocrisy, double standards, or what have you

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

That's not what I was claiming at all. I was pointing out that you can enjoy having lots of sex, monogamously or not, and still shame women for doing so. It's called hypocrisy, double standards, or what have you

You were responding to a post of mine that said, "Zappa didn't find it negative or problematic or anything that men and women enjoyed sex."

So how would we be talking about a double standard, "shaming" women, etc.?

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

I'm explaining how the reaction against "Love me less, respect me more" indicates nothing about value judgments of sluttiness.

Alright, I see your failing to address Butcher's criticism of Zappa in any meaningful way. I guess it's the closest you're gonna come to a concession.

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

Alright, I see your failing to address Butcher's criticism of Zappa in any meaningful way. I guess it's the closest you're gonna come to a concession.

What in the world would count as a "meaningful way" to you?