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08-27-2021, 01:35 AM | #341 (permalink) |
Music Addict
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So if you call everyone else pretentious you have an ironclad alibi against being deemed pretentious yourself. Wish I had figured this one out earlier!
Last edited by jadis; 08-27-2021 at 10:48 AM. |
08-27-2021, 06:16 AM | #342 (permalink) | ||
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I don't see how you're not reading "contempt and condescension" into it though. Re "Broken Hearts" I don't think you're even understanding that song or the lyrics at all. That whole last section simply grows in a word-play way out of "Well, ladies you can be an @$$hole too; You might pretend you ain't got one on the bottom of you, But don't fool yerself girl," where as was usually par for the course, the "ram it up your poop shoot" was probably an inside joke about something someone in the band or on the crew said. That was the source of a lot of Zappa's lyrics. |
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08-27-2021, 07:54 AM | #344 (permalink) | |
Juicious Maximus III
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In Bobby Brown, we have lines like: "I'll let her do all the work and maybe later I'll rape her". In fembot in a Wet T-shirt, we get lines like "I really need the fifty bucks you know. I gotta get home!" - "Yeah, I know, your father is waiting for you in the tool shed". You don't see condescension or contempt here? Of course, any FZ apologist will point out that Frank uses characters here and Bobby Brown is meant to be awful (rapist homosexual sadomasichist), but that's not always the case. Take a verse out of Jewish princess where he doesn't hide behind any character: I need a hairy little Jewish Princess (la-la-la) You mean this is not derogatory, shows contempt or condescension? Or easy meat: Saw her tiny titties Slightly sillier example, but upon discovering that his girlfriend has gone missing (eaten by the devil) in the song "Titties n beer", Frank's reaction is this: "where's those titties i like so well, 'n' my goddam beer!" Is what i started to yell Clearly the important thing about his girl - and what concerns him - are the tittays. I don't consider myself a prude. I don't have problems with portrayals of sexuality between men and women. I just think it would be better if they were respectful. In his songs, Frank uses terms like "crew slut" or "easy meat" which are in themselves derogatory and objectifying. This would be okay too if it happened on occasion, but the impression I have is that Frank is pretty much unable to tackle the theme of man-woman sexuality without somehow being disrespectful to women. He's disrespectful to everyone, so of course, but this particular side of him especially hasn't aged well (imo).
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08-27-2021, 01:48 PM | #346 (permalink) |
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I don't want to get into increasingly longer posts each round, but just for example, take this:
So, let's imagine that you're going to write a song about a groupie who is notorious for hooking up with crew members. To make it "respectful," instead of writing it as "Crew Slut," you'd write is as? |
08-27-2021, 01:56 PM | #347 (permalink) | ||
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08-27-2021, 03:06 PM | #348 (permalink) | |
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I never bothered to seriously investigate Frank Zappa, having heard maybe an hour's worth in total of cuts from various albums, and not particularly liking any of them. This thread has made me even less inclined to spend any more time on him. |
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08-27-2021, 03:30 PM | #349 (permalink) | ||
Zum Henker Defätist!!
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08-27-2021, 07:38 PM | #350 (permalink) | ||
carpe musicam
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I guess your definition of "pretentious" is someone who says "Wowie Zowie." Someone who warns you: don't eat the yellow snow. How dare he. If jadis wants to eat yellow snow who is the pretentious Frank Zappa to say otherwise. Wowie Zowie that is really pretentious.
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