I agree with Lateralus being by a long way the best Tool album. For one, it tries and achieves more than Aenima does. But I also believe it's got the best (and most rocking) songs.

I thought that while Aenima's a great record, many of the songs seem come across as almost grandiose, containing plainly superfluous moments and unnecessary prolongations that do nothing for them. Lateralus on the other hand is the one album where Tool make every second count.

I seriously think this is one of the coolest rock songs created in the past 20 years. Just the way it changes and evolves from minute to minute is just astonishing. To me at least.

Lateralus is good
My favorite is Undertow
Aenima and Lateralus both have a lot of filler tracks on them, which are good, but personally I love the fact that I can put on Undertow, and every song on it is awesome.
btw, agreed 3rd Eye-awesome, Eulogy my other favorite, it's like Flood how it starts very slowly and builds to pulsating finish.
I don't think any other band can quite raise the hairs on your arm, and they always do it at the end of a lot of songs.

I think Lateralus is flawless. When you're talking about filler, do you mean the little tracks like Mantra, or are there some 'real' tracks you don't like too much?

Honestly, I've never heard a Tool song that I didn't like. I usually like all of their stuff the more I listen to it. But, yeah, like the track on Lateralus, where his cat is moaning, or Aenima, the intro to Eleven, or whatever, they get kind of annoying after a while, but all the same, they do give the albums a little better personality.

Tool
 

I can't believe I haven't been listening to them before now. I always knew they were there, but I guess I just wasn't interested. I've heard like 6 of their songs on Pandora tonight and I just decided I love them.

So help me out here, what's there best stuff?

Go backwards from Lateralus.

Everything except 10,000 Days.

But do check out 10000 days... I liked it.

10,000 Days is good, but man compared to their previous efforts it ain't ****.

Go listen to Aenima and Lateralus. There is nothing else in the Tool discography that calls out to be listened to. Undertow is not a good album whatever anybody says. It was an uneven effort with some of the blandest melodies and most uninspiring music you're likely to come across. It sounds good if you're a fan of the band's general work, though. It just doesn't hold a candle to A or L. As for 10,000 Days, I can summarize that with the word "dud".

I really don't get what people didn't like about 10000 Days... For me it was an amazing introduction to Tool, and even now I still listen to it.

As for Undertow, I'd generally agree, but there are definitely a couple tunes worth listening to. Sober and Prison Sex come to mind as well as 4 Degrees. But yeah, Aenima and Lateralus are generally considered Tool's best works.

best song on undertow has to be the swamp song

Agreed, I forgot bout that one.

Other than almost half the album is noise tracks it's ****ing great.

Lateralus is brilliant, and better than Aenima IMO.

TooL and APC are my favorite bands... I just bought Puscifer's cd (V is for Vagina)... it's so different but still f*cking brilliant. Maynard is the most creative and intelligent person on the face of this Earth... I love deep and dark sh*t.

all i wanna know is why isn't tool on itunes??!?! wtf???

One of my best memories was seeing Tool last year for my second time on my birthday when I turned 25 last year! Ohhh the glory!!

His main input in the band is that of adding melody and lyrics. The real intelligence of the band lies in the creative interplay and polyrhythmic arrangements of Carey, Chancellor and Jones. And the only virtuoso is Carey. Maynard's just the charismatic frontman who the crowds relate to.

As a fan you don't know that? I'm surprised. Basically, Tool are supposed to be "anti-industry": they believe their music ought to be heard as one cohesive whole, as if you were watching a movie. Not to be disassembled and taken apart track by track. They don't intend the music that way, and feel that being on iTunes, where people can purchase individual tracks, is counter to how they are supposed to be digested and understood.



Whether or not that's a load of bull, I leave for others to judge.

Tool is above and beyond APC...

APC's first album was a great listen, after that they became and overrated super group.

Tool has released quality work ever since their first EP.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Tool isn't even particularly inaccessible! There's way more "difficult" music than Tool out there, and certainly more "intelligent" music in term of lyrical content. Furthermore, I have never found the generality of fans of this band to demontrate any particular "smartness"; pseudo-intellectual arrogance and pretentiousness, maybe. And also sheer ignorance of what else is actually going on in contemporary music.

I completely agree with you on that. I have seen Tool five times in concert and there are some really stupid Tool fans:crazy: (Oklahoma City).

I wouldn't venture to say that tool is a 'smartperson group', as someone had mentioned. Which seems to suggest that if you listen to them, you're smart. I believe what makes them most accessible is the sheer honesty that speaks to fans. Maynard probably displays more emotions in his songs than by far most singers. From Jerk-Off, where he screams that he wants to 'shoot you in your f*cking head', far from an intellectual sentiment, but very raw emotionally, to lighter songs like Lateralus, where he sings, 'swing on the spiral of our own divinity.' What he and the band display in their music is a great deal of emotional complexity, which I believe we, as humans are very much that way. So, I think the honesty is what plays so well, from Maynard to Adam, ripping through a solo on Undertow, or much subtler work on H. Carey is an uber-aggressive drummer, but when he speaks, he is a very gentle soul. So, I think you can see that they unapologetically embody and display the range of emotions, that we, as humans feel, and I think that this is to be seen as virtuous, and something that everyone aspires to do, and is capable of doing. To attempt to make music that is reserved for a sophisticated 'elite' group of individuals with a higher I.Q. than the rest of us would be considered pretension, and honesty is not above any of us.

I wasn't suggesting that Maynard is any sort of pseudo-intellectual. On the contrary, he isn't. He just writes about things that personally take his interest, obviously. I think Maynard's lyrical work was always quite honest, though I must say that I never felt much sincerity was emanating from that awful 10,000 Days LP, with its cliché-laden nonsense.

I don't really see what you consider cliche laden about it. Maynard does delve into politics on The Pot, but other than that he sings about people watching too much T.V. on Vicariously. On Wings for Marie he continues to disagree with organized religion, while at the same time mourning his mother's passing. On Rosetta Stoned he talks about an LSD induced alien abduction. Danny Carey tries out a drum kit, they sing about de-evolution, and they still play in unusual time signatures. I admit it is probably their worst album, but I'm not really sure what you want them to do, create an album that somehow creates everlasting peace and harmony on this planet?

Grant it, it was the title of 98 Degrees' second album, but in Maynard's version he's speaking from the perspective of a person who appears to be having a nightmare, whereas we know that for Drew Lachey, he draws on a firsthand experience. So, it was somewhat original.

Tool and Perfect Circle are great.

But the music is clever. Their use of time signatures and melody combined are spectacular.

I like how the band described their method of creating a song. They talk about just being in a room together, and finding a comfort level with each other, and respecting everyone's individual space. It gives them a creative freedom that really shows in their music. Anyway, as I was saying, Adam Jones may play a lick or two on his guitar, and they all begin to jam, and just see what it morphs into from there. It's like instead of sitting around having political arguments about the song structure, they send each other messages with their own instruments, and I think when you're a tight-knit group, like they are, they're able to really respond to that subtlety, and make the process work.

Yes...um...you may not have noticed but music in general does actually tend to use a combination of "time signatures and melody"? :rolleyes:

Actually...I dont think we have a clue how they make there music. Same with almost all other musicians. if you have done it before it is not something easily described and understood by others. I am not putting you down, just realize the fact that no matter how much it is explained one can not begin to understand how someone else goes about creating music.

Huh? It's hardly rocket science. Since we're talking Tool, all you do is listen to Schism a few times, think "well THAT opening sounds pretty damn good", and so make Vicarious.

Really? Well, I was actually describing what Danny Carey said in an interview, so I guess you could watch Danny Carey describe how his band creates a song, and then say he didn't explain it.

LOL @ Rainerd Jalen for implying that Tool are commercial sellouts who prefer record sales over innovation. They have specifically built a career out of staying away from the media as much as possible, much the way Led Zeppelin did. You don't see Maynard or Adam Jones popping up all over guitar magazine. It's because they care more about their art than their image. They don't particularly care about the marketing side, and the fact that they remain successful is a huge testament to the quality of their music.

Oh come on it was tongue in cheek ;).

I don't particularly want to resurrect this argument, but I'll say this much: cloaking themselves in obscurity and mystery is all a part of the marketing. Maynard himself has commented in interviews about the early behaviour of the band, what they had to do in order to survive in the post-grunge dominated scene etc. Enshrouding themselves in enigma is largely how they built their popular reputation and were thereby marketed. Loz, the band has always had this habit of spreading little rumours here and there, little stunts and whatnot. Look up lachrymology, for instance. One of the very cleverest most ingenious things about Tool is the uncanny subtlety of their marketing.

Oh, and Maynard has done quite a few odd little ventures over the past 7 years or so. You should probably investigate a little closer before making sweeping statements.

BTW in case you don't really get my point, I wasn't using this to diss or slate Tool. Just stating the case as it is. It doesn't add to or detract from their musical achievements.

I sit around in my truck and sometimes write songs and poetry, and never reveal these to anyone outside of musicbanter, and so I'm taking out a mortgage on a $200,000 house next week.

I'll have to say that you did make some good points, but my point is that obscurity and mystery alone will not put you on the map. Opiate didn't have a sound that guaranteed success. It was an alternative metal album at the time when grunge was the scene. Undertow slowed down a bit, but it doesn't sound relatively much like Nevermind or Ten, or the popular rock albums of that time.

As for Lachrymology, you've got a band who is as you've said shrouded in mystery, and so many people are interested in them, so why not throw them a bone every once in a while? Like, Maynard puts jokes up on their websites sometimes. Like when Maynard said he had converted to Christianity, all Tool fans knew it was a joke. He's just keeping up the dialogue with his fans.

Don't get me wrong, obviously it was their music above all that put them on the map. But subtle, creative marketing has been an important part of the Tool chronology, there is no doubting that for a moment.

Well that was kinda my point. Keeping people interested and excited is all part of good marketing. Maynard's a master of that kind of thing.

Yes, but IMO, that's to sustain their longevity, and preserve the purity of their art. We are celebrity obsessed society, but my feeling is that you won't see Maynard on Dancing With The Stars any time soon. He's definitely not Gene Simmons of Kiss. When a celebrity becomes over exposed, they become so saturated with self-importance, that they're no longer really good at what made them great in the first place. And shouldn't it be that way? Fans tend to look down on 'sellouts', because they have compromised themselves for the purpose of financial gain. You seem to be arguing that Tool are successful because of their subtle marketing, but I think they're successful in spite of it. I think Tool would have had the chance to make millions and millions more than they have at this point, but they have chosen to remain true to their art.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean by all this subtle marketing. I mean the members of the band seem to have held a collective belief system, which was that letting go of your pain, or crying, was the key to spiritual gain, and there wasn't really a term for that, so they themselves gave it a name-lachrymology. Other than that, I can't really think of too many examples, I mean, what do you want them to do, never make posts on their website, or communicate with their fans in any way?

That may be, but i don't think anyone can truly understand how another makes music. It is something so personal, and definitely not easily explained in some quick interview...

In my opinion I like both. Yet I Have to be in a certain mood to listen to one or the other. Tool is more obscure in thier lyrics and APC is more of an anti- Government band. Both of them are Amazing, Maynard knows what he is doing

I take it that you realize Howerdel is almost certainly the main force behind the sound of APC, actually being a competent musician and a producer and all that... and that Tool's sound is owed largely to instrumentalists Carey, Jones and Chancellor and their talent for polyrhythmic interplay... Like, yeah, I'm really sick of every fan of these bands being f'cking obsessed with showering all the praise on Maynard as if he's some amazing one-of-a-kind one man mission. He isn't. He's not even a particularly good lyricist or vocalist.

I think Maynard's probably the best "metal" lyricist I've ever come across. I've been rediscovering Tool recently, picking up more of the subtleties and layers of meaning. Tool are an excellent band to grow up with, probably the only important band I've grown up with.