Is it still possible to be innovative in Pop music?

~~Soulflower~~ · 09-17-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surell

Very true, though i'm plugging the same band, Animal Collective had a decent success - at least considering their popularity before - with "My Girls," which has a very different structure and sound than pop songs of today or even a lot of the past. I would actually say that "Somebody That I Used to Know" from Gotye was pretty innovative, it was lyrical, had an unusual structure as far as radio songs go, and unique instrumentation.

Still, I don't think we necessarily have to think of Pop in terms of popularity, it's evolved beyond that in many respects. How would Avant/Experimental Pop exist in this regard? Experimental music is never popular, as it dabble in unpopular and unfamiliar sounds, but it's still pop.

It has and what it has evolved into isnt as experimental or creative like it was in the past. I think popular music today is more so about image than music. Its always been about both but it appears to be alot more emphasis on image now.

Surell · 09-17-2013, 04:48 PM

I think we're still talking about popular pop music though, which we can, but it doesn't speak to the bigger picture. Most popular forms of any genre aren't as experimental as more underground stuff.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 09-17-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surell

Yes were arty rock in their day, being a Progressive band, but I think this was usually signified in their compositional expertise as opposed to their embrace of harsher or unfamiliar sounds. It can be hard to get into because of this, such as a disorienting time signature or a melody so complex it's hard to decipher, but overall their sound was based in rock/pop with superb composition and playing. In its day, though, it may have been fairly difficult for the audience, but this was the era when people really loved Sgt. Peppers for being a concept album and having classical undertones - though they really don't stack up compared to Yes' themes and classicism. So it could have to do with the era your siblings/generation came from, with their acceptance of a certain degree of experimentation (do you guys dig Captain Beefheart or Velvet Underground as well?) or perhaps it is age that engrains you in a certain mindset/familiarity with the sounds you know, and anything new is hard to accept. When I'm older, I'm sure I'll have some issue with my children's favorite band just because I'm so comfortable with what i know, it's precious to me and i've known it for too long, I suppose.

BTW: AC shows, from what I've seen, are usually people around my age, late teens to early 20s, but usually i'm all in the zone of the show. I saw some older people around the festival i recently saw them (and Grizzly Bear) at, but there were also older acts at the show, such as McCartney and ZZ Topp, the same night as those bands.

Haven't heard of Captain Beefheart until you mentioned them/him/it right now. I'm sure I've heard some Velvet Underground but nothing pops in my head right away.

BTW, since you're young, at some point in your life you might experience something like what I did: Somewhere around 1990 I mostly stopped paying attention to new music, because that's when Grunge came out. I had a roommate who was into Nirvana and the like, and he used to play them all the time, and I thought to myself, "What's the big deal? This sounds just like Neil Young's hard rock version of 'My My Hey Hey.'" Some guys moaning into a microphone. So I thought, if the latest and greatest thing was something that sounded just like something that was already more than 10 years old, then rock/pop music must be going downhill, and it wasn't worth the bother anymore. Couple that with the fact that that's when rap started becoming really popular, which I couldn't stand. The only time between then and in June (when you got me listening to AC) that I payed attention to anything "new" was a brief period about 10 years ago when I started listening to some Brazilian music (some guy on another forum encouraged me to listen to this, which is really great stuff). Anyway, the point is, I think there might be a point in a lot of people's lives when they run across some "new" stuff they don't think is all that great, and figure that means music is going downhill, so they stop paying attention to new stuff. That might be a natural inclination anyway - most people only have so much time to listen to music, and can't spend so much time checking out every new band that comes along, so the slightest excuse to tune out new stuff means they'll do just that and stick with their own true-and-tried material.

EDIT: It was also shortly after 1990 that I really started getting into some Classical music as well. That probably distracted me from paying attention to anything new as much as my disinterest in grunge and rap.

~~Soulflower~~ · 09-17-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surell

I think we're still talking about popular pop music though, which we can, but it doesn't speak to the bigger picture. Most popular forms of any genre aren't as experimental as more underground stuff.

I was specifically referring to mainstram music but I see your point as well.

musicloverbanter · 09-25-2013, 11:05 AM

Pop has such a vast amount of artists and sounds to cover, lots of new pop music is innovative, people have become very snooty about music- just because its popular doesn't mean it is ****. tbh in my opinion indie music is less innovative than pop,all sounds whiney and the same

Armstrong · 10-15-2013, 04:28 AM

The point is making something innovative is actually not really profitable, which is the key if we talk about pop music. People like certain type of things and most artists prefer to go the old tried-and-true ways. However, I believe there are lots of ways to discover.

Surell · 10-16-2013, 04:31 AM

I was always meaning to answer this but woops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

BTW, since you're young, at some point in your life you might experience something like what I did: Somewhere around 1990 I mostly stopped paying attention to new music, because that's when Grunge came out. I had a roommate who was into Nirvana and the like, and he used to play them all the time, and I thought to myself, "What's the big deal? This sounds just like Neil Young's hard rock version of 'My My Hey Hey.'" Some guys moaning into a microphone. So I thought, if the latest and greatest thing was something that sounded just like something that was already more than 10 years old, then rock/pop music must be going downhill, and it wasn't worth the bother anymore. Couple that with the fact that that's when rap started becoming really popular, which I couldn't stand. The only time between then and in June (when you got me listening to AC) that I payed attention to anything "new" was a brief period about 10 years ago when I started listening to some Brazilian music (some guy on another forum encouraged me to listen to this, which is really great stuff). Anyway, the point is, I think there might be a point in a lot of people's lives when they run across some "new" stuff they don't think is all that great, and figure that means music is going downhill, so they stop paying attention to new stuff. That might be a natural inclination anyway - most people only have so much time to listen to music, and can't spend so much time checking out every new band that comes along, so the slightest excuse to tune out new stuff means they'll do just that and stick with their own true-and-tried material.

EDIT: It was also shortly after 1990 that I really started getting into some Classical music as well. That probably distracted me from paying attention to anything new as much as my disinterest in grunge and rap.

I think the hype killed it there, like how I can hardly listen to MGMT or Vampire Weekend because they're just so adored that it distracts me from what they do well - pretty much, I think what they do isn't that impressive, but I can't tell if it's because of the hype, if it's the core of my feelings, or a mixture of both. I know I hate MGMT because it seems like they soak up all the success that could be AC's so I'm just a mad hater in tht respect, but with Vampire Weekend they seem to have this really pretentious air about them while not writing that great of songs, just spinoffs of Pet Sounds and Paul Simon with some new instruments.

Basically, I think it's a skepticism you show mostly because of hype, especially when the music is being branded as truly original or something similar. There are a lot of rappers that i can't get into for this hype surrounding them as well as other bands, and it does make me tune out a little, but I'm also am in the rediscovering process, back into Neil Young and the Beach Boys and Beatles when I'm not listening to some favorite new stuff. I don't think it's because of my aversion to hype, it's just how I'm working - maybe that's where my age comes in. I am on the boarder of real adulthood and technical childhood (teenage bullshiit) so maybe I'm recovering all the sounds from when I was a little dude. I'm sure Freud has a theory.

But I'm still into some new things, just a little later than everyone else. If it's brand new, like debut album this year new, I'm probably not into it. Hype actually does guide me in some ways, because if a band's around long enough and is still talked about with the new people around (like AC or Mastodon or the Shins are) then I'll check it, because it must be cool, but that newness is relative, or non-existent. The newest album I've bought is John Maus' one from 2011, and I only heard it last year. I kinda like living behind like that though.

Point is, I'm not sure, but I think hype is bad, kind of.

Taxman · 10-16-2013, 08:28 AM

It's always possible to be innovative. But it much harder to be listenable at the same time. And sadly, nowadays if you are innovative chances are very little that you make it big, so if your innovations are never noticed, they are actually very useless

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 10-17-2013, 12:58 AM

@Surell,

No, it wasn't the hype of Grunge that turned me off, I'm not the kind of person who lets something like that bother me. It was the actual music of Grunge, I just thought it was a big fat "what's the big deal?" Held no appeal to me at all (and it still doesn't).

Surell · 10-17-2013, 02:11 AM

OH. well then. ooops.

I'm totally that type of person, I guess the context is key for me. It isn't always so, but if it doesn't meet the standard then I'm irked. But now I guess I just see it as you don't like Grunge, much like how I don't like popular Country of today, or 80s R&B/New Jack Swing for the most part. For the most part, I hate everything 80s, and my mom hates me for it, but that's just me. But as far as new music goes, and my place in dismissing it or not, could very well be part of my age, if that gets back to the original question. But it's not because I'm not impressed, per se, just that I'm at a point where I'm discovering older rather than newer music. I want to say it's because, being so caught up in music, I want to touch on the things that are making what I hear today possible, or where the newer stuff is sourced, and see how they progress or stagnate with it. Or I just might be at the age of nostalgia, bordering on a quarter life, graduate crisis or something.

10-17-2013, 12:58 AM	#69 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	@Surell, No, it wasn't the hype of Grunge that turned me off, I'm not the kind of person who lets something like that bother me. It was the actual music of Grunge, I just thought it was a big fat "what's the big deal?" Held no appeal to me at all (and it still doesn't). __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here

09-25-2013, 11:05 AM	#65 (permalink)
musicloverbanter Groupie Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 9	Pop has such a vast amount of artists and sounds to cover, lots of new pop music is innovative, people have become very snooty about music- just because its popular doesn't mean it is ****. tbh in my opinion indie music is less innovative than pop,all sounds whiney and the same

10-15-2013, 04:28 AM	#66 (permalink)
Armstrong Groupie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 18	The point is making something innovative is actually not really profitable, which is the key if we talk about pop music. People like certain type of things and most artists prefer to go the old tried-and-true ways. However, I believe there are lots of ways to discover.

10-16-2013, 08:28 AM	#68 (permalink)
Taxman watching the wheels Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Finland Posts: 470	It's always possible to be innovative. But it much harder to be listenable at the same time. And sadly, nowadays if you are innovative chances are very little that you make it big, so if your innovations are never noticed, they are actually very useless