NYSPORTSFAN

It should be noted no music is 100% percent original and without influence. Those same people you mentioned were infuenced by other people also. It's more like IMO the pupil surpassed the mentors and went on to create music that is so unlike the basic blues/country roots of rock and roll or the typical pop music of the day.

Yet the Beatles in the end did their own thing something like a "Day in the Life" or "I Am the Walrus" brought together the classical orchestra, the rock band, and the technology of the studio, bringing together three disparate worlds: pop entertainment, avant-garde composition, and high-brow artistic sensibility is unlike anything the people you say were standing on the shoulders of giants. They surpassed them IMO and many people feel that way. Honestly I think Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley were great. In terms of influence since the Beatles broke through in the states in 1964 I would say the Beatles have influenced more musicians, songwriters and music producers substanially by a wide margin.

Neapolitan

I don't know when The Beatles surpassed any of their influences when it comes to playing guitar or singing. The Beatles never surpassed Elvis as vocalist. And they didn't surpass many of the guitar players that influenced them. Only when it comes to their songwriting ablity. None of those songs would be the finished products as we know them if it wasn't for the talents of George Martin and the musicians of the studio orchestra that played on their recrodings.

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NYSPORTSFAN

Those songs were composed by the Beatles and the idea for the orchestra was McCartney's. From I have read Lennon even produced the mono version of "I Am the Walrus" even though I am not downplaying George Martin. What about the people who played on Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley records?

Compared to Elvis and their mentors they had the whole package. Elvis was just a vocalist not a songwriter or musician in the caliber of any of the Beatles. The Beatles songs in terms of melodic and chordal content goes way further than someone like Chuck Berry and 50's rock and roll in general. The Beatles not only had classic singles but a album run of Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, White Album and Abbey Road that none of their mentors could approach.

Rubber Soul and Revolver combined Eastern, country-western, soul, and classical motifs with trend-setting covers, breaking any mold that seemed to contain "rock and roll." In both albums, balladry, classical instrumentation, and new structure resulted in brilliant new concepts just hinted at in earlier works like "Yesterday" and "Rain." Songs such as "Tomorrow Never Knows," "Eleanor Rigby," and the lyrically surreal "Norwegian Wood" made use of sophisticated recording techniques. .

Janszoon

I feel like the bolded sentence is an unfair comparison. The heyday of people like Chuck Berry was a time before the era of albums, so naturally they can't be evaluated in terms of what kind of "album runs" they had.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

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NYSPORTSFAN

Well that's one of the areas the Beatles surpassed their mentors as you say no one expected 50's rock and roll to think in terms of albums. The Beatles had the songwriting and musical ability to think past of having a hit single. Basically rock band has followed that blue-print ranging from Led Zeppelin to the Black Keys.

It's like many of the Merseybeat bands like Gerry and The Pacemakers and the Searchers couldn't adapt to the emerging psychedelic and progressive rock movement but the Beatles did and was a key influence on many of the key players of that movement including the Byrds, King Crimson, Pink Floyd and yes the Beach Boys. Chuck Berry and Elvis didn't really adapt to these changes.

Janszoon

They surpassed their mentors by becoming popular in a different era? I'm not so sure I consider simply being born later as much of an accomplishment.

The Beatles didn't adapt to the 70s. According to your logic I guess that means The Clash were better than them.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

NYSPORTSFAN

Elvis and Chuck Berry were recording music when the Beatles were around weren't they? The Beatles weren't recording music in the 70's so your logic has no grounds. By your logic because the Beatles were recording later than Elvis or Chuck Berry or after the birth of rock and roll the Beatles couldn't surpass them. Please give me a break.

You can't dismiss the fact the Beatles had a long string of geat albums in which you could basically put anything on vinyl ranging from world music, avant garde, classical and anything else this was unheard of by previous standards of 50's rock and roll. They could have stayed the course and keep writing songs like "I Want To Hold Your Hand" but they progressed into something entirely different. Of course they surpassed their mentors in many ways but I wouldn't say in every facet though. The string of albums of Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Peppers, The White Album and Abbey Road not only marks a clear progression from what they were influenced they in turned influenced thousands of musicians, songwriters and music producers. Neither Elvis and Chuck Berry had an album run like the Beatles and something that IMO is something you can't dismiss easily.

Surell

There! Now we have a winner!

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Neapolitan

Elvis was backed by Scotty Moore on guitar and Bill Black on bass. Chuck Berry was backed by Willie Dixon on bass and Johnnie Johnson on piano. All legends in their own right.

Scotty Moore His style is close to other guitar players at the time that did fingerpicking, and he is modest when talking about his playing ability. Scotty Moore got paid up front for the Sun Sessions and didn't receive any royalities for his part on those recordings, not even a dime. And it goes without saying how much money Elvis made.

If you ask people to recognize how revolutionary The Beatles were, then the same thing should be pointed out about Elvis and even taking note of the talent of his backup band of Scotty Moore and Bill Black. Just listen to Blue Moon - you'll have to admit 1.) it was just as revolutionary for its day as The Beatles were for theirs and 2.) that George Harrison's guitar playing style (on early Beatle songs) sounds awlful close to Scotty Moore's playing (and goes without saying George was influenced by Carl Perkins).



Bill Black played stand up bass on Elvis' early recording and the drummer is really missed with Bill's doghouse bass slapping technique. He had some success with his own band, The Bill Black Combo. They had hits with Smokie Part 2 (#17 on the pop charts) and White Silver Sands (#9 on the pop charts) - all together a total of eight Top 40 hits.

Willie Dixon There can't be enough said about him.

List of songs written by Willie Dixon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Johnnie Johnson played piano for Chuck Berry. Johnson was talented musician and he helped Chuck with arrangements on a couple of his songs. He is inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as well as the Rhythm and Blues Foundation.

It's pretty much a shell game. If I mention that Elvis is a stronger singer then you say he didn't write songs eshewing any comparison where The Beatles don't come up on top (like singing ablity).

There were plenty of mold breakers before The Beatles. Robert Johnson was know for playing Irish jigs on guitar but unfortanetly none of those songs were ever recorded. Why? Because he broke the mold for what Blues guitar player should play back then.

Well.... Les Paul single handedly invented the multi track recording studio along with all those techinques you boast about The Beatles using like Tape Looping, Phasing, and even Flanging, direct line in* etc etc.

*I read where Paul McCartney was the first to directly plug his bass into the recording console which thus became a recording standard, because it was a Belates first, but I'm sure Les Paul was doing something similar with his guitar a decade earlier.

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