The Beatles vs The Beach Boys

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-17-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surell

Damn this is hard. I'm one of the people who love that particular Beatles songs - it'd definitely have to be a top 5, and I'd probably say it exhibits their best songwriting - but "Surf's Up" is a masterpiece in its own right. There's not a song out there that sounds like it, it's got some cool little left turns, and, though it's so full grandeur, it's so very personal. Really, I wouldn't call it a social commentary song, but more of an observation on the inevitable aging process, on how we're always one step closer to misery and death or being brought down by life. Like the whole "Surf's up/aboard a tidal wave" idea; you think being atop a tidal wave is just where it's at, but really, it's just the predecessor to a great crash and a huge wipeout.

This discussion here, while not intended to be anything remotely definitive, does suggest a possible social commentary angle to the song (a decadent society going downhill, to be renewed by the children at the end of the song).

I think maybe VD Parks was writing stream-of-consciousness lyrics which may have had his own cryptic meaning, but which he deliberately wrote so as to be interpreted according to the listener's own whims and biases.

EDIT: From pg. 2 of that link, here's BW's own words:

Quote:

"It's a man at a concert," he said. "All around him there's the audience, playing their roles, dressed up in fancy clothes, looking through opera glasses, but so far away from the drama, fromlife. Back through the opera glass you see the pit and the pendulum drawn. "The music begins to take over. 'Columnated ruins domino.' Empires, ideas, lives, institutions;everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes. "He begins to awaken to the music; sees the pretentiousness of everything. 'The music hall a costly bow.' Then even the music is gone, turned into a trumpeter swan, into what the music really is. "Canvas the town and brush the backdrop.' He's off in his vision, on a trip. Reality is gone; he's creating it like a dream. Dove-nested towers.' Europe, a long time ago. 'The laughs come hard in Auld Lang Syne.' The poor people in the cellar taverns, trying to make themselves happy by singing. "Then there's the parties, the 'drinking, trying to forget the wars, the battles at sea. "While at port a do or die.' Ships in the harbor, battling it out. A kind of Roman empire thing. "'A choke of grief.' At his own sorrow and the emptiness of his life. because he can't even cry for the suffering in the world, for his own suffering. "And then, hope. 'Surf's up! . . . Come about hard and join the once and often spring you gave.' Go back to the kids, to the beach, to childhood. "'I heard the word'of God; 'Wonderful thing';the joy of enlightenment, of seeing God. And what is it? 'A children's song!' And then there's the song itself; the song of children; the song of the universe rising and falling in wave after wave, the song of God, hiding the love from us, but always letting us find it again, like a mother singing to her children."

Surell · 03-18-2013, 12:13 AM

I can see it now. Parks was a very cryptic writer, in a way i personally appreciate even though a lot of people call it pretentious. The segment of Smile seems to imply the theme of aging to me, with the girl's exploration in "Wonderful" and the childish/solemn pairing of "Look"/"Child is the Father of the Man," with the side being ended with this vision of collapse.

But as I said, the class distinctions and constant imagery of tradition and decadence do seem to portray something bigger than just one man's existential angst, though that is probably a part of it; something more akin to a societal decline.

BTW i love that Bob Dylan looking Brian Wilson you have for your avatar.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-18-2013, 11:19 PM

Time for another one!

Contest #11: Battle of the Bizarre Acid Trip Songs - "Tomorrow Never Knows" vs "Cabin Essence"

"Tomorrow Never Knows" - recorded April 1966

"Cabin Essence" - recorded Oct & Dec 1966

If you're unfamiliar with the song, I'll put the lyrics below the tune as I did for Surf's Up. You might want to put on headphones for the "Who ran the iron horse" section if you want to try to follow the lyrics (especially the 2nd iteration). The song is probably better on headphones anyway. The lyrics aren't as obviously an acid trip song as TNK (that said, Tomorrow Never Knows was ostensibly a song about The Tibetian Book of the Dead, even though it really wasn't). However, it was really just as much an acid trip song as its Beatle counterpart. In fact, the song (and much of Smile, for that matter) was based on an acid trip Brian Wilson had at Lake Arrowhead in 1966, according to this (which also puts its own Zen interpretation on things. Who knows, maybe).

And as with Surf's Up, we get another great coda.

Anyway, the lyrics:

Light the lamp and fire mellow,
Cabin essence timely hello,
Welcomes the time for a change.

Lost and found, you still remain there.
You'll find a meadow filled with grain there.
I'll give you a home on the range.

Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?
Who ran the iron horse?

I want to watch you windblown facing
Waves of wheat for your embracing.
Folks sing a song of the grange.

Nestle in a kiss below there.
The constellations ebb and flow there.
And witness our home on the range.

Who ran the iron horse?
(Truck driving man do what you can)
Who ran the iron horse?
(High-tail your load off the road)
Who ran the iron horse?
(Out of night-life-it's a gas man)
Who ran the iron horse?
(I don't believe I gotta grieve)
Who ran the iron horse?
(In and out of luck)
Who ran the iron horse?
(With a buck and a booth)
Who ran the iron horse?
(Catchin' on to the truth)
Who ran the iron horse?
(In the vast past, the last gasp)
Who ran the iron horse?
(In the land, in the dust, trust that you must)
Who ran the iron horse?
(Catch as catch can)

Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad?
Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad?
Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad?

Over and over,
The crow cries uncover the cornfield.
Over and over,
The thresher and hover the wheat field.

Over and over,
The crow cries uncover the cornfield.
Over and over,
The thresher and hover the wheat field.

Over and over,
The crow cries uncover the cornfield.
Over and over,
The thresher and hover the wheat field.

---------------------------------

And as an example of how much there is going on in this song ... even though I've listened to this probably 3 or 4 dozen times now, I just "got" the "Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad?" part. I think the fact I live in Washington state automatically makes me think of Grand Coulee, but that's not what was meant.

The song, especially the coda, is like an acid trip over America and its history, if you can imagine such a thing. If you're taking an acid trip on a mountain lake in California, and you're seeing birds and the sun rising or setting, you might end up thinking of something like that for a song.

My Verdict: TNK is definitely a weirder song, but Cabin Essence has certain musical qualities I like better, so I call it a tie.

Quzi · 03-20-2013, 11:16 AM

There's no need to argue and post videos comparing each stop of each band's respective career. One video solves this argument completely.

Recorded just two months after "Mr. Moonlight"

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-20-2013, 08:27 PM

^
The instrumental is just as good!

Now, you can play a little game. Play both separately, and see if you can get them synced up together.

tahúuon · 03-20-2013, 08:42 PM

The Beach boys with "Surfin' Safari", "Surfin' USA", "Surfer Girl", "Little Deuce Coupe", "Be True to Your School", "In My Room", "Fun, Fun, Fun", "I Get Around", "Dance Dance Dance", "Help Me Rhonda" and "California Girls". I love this band.

Surell · 03-23-2013, 02:26 PM

"Cabin Essence" freaked me out the first time i heard it, especially the chorus section cuz it's just such a sudden turn in the song and the chorus is so obscure by their own singing in a way. But personally, if i picked a song to go up against "TNK" for most psychedelic or trippy, it'd probably have to be something like "Love to say Dada" for the pitch alteration and wordless lyrics (or fake Hawaiian technically) and because it moves so smoothly like water which is kinda psychedelic maybe; or possibly "She's Goin Bald" because that song's pretty out there in its own cartoonish way; but for something that is more directly linked to tripping, "Wind Chimes" seems pretty caught up with the intricacy and obscureness associated with it, as well as the bombastic nature of acid.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-23-2013, 07:24 PM

^
Hmm, interesting thoughts. One thing I'm trying to do in these comparisons is to get songs recorded within about a year of each other, preferably closer. That way you can track the simultaneous evolution of each band's music. "She's Goin' Bald" was recorded several months after Cabin Essence, so CE gets the nod there. Plus I think SGB isn't really so much an acid trip song as, well, just a weird song.

"Love To Say Dada" was another possibility. I chose CE because it seemed a little more, well, "finished" and was a longer song, closer in length to TNK.

But as I've said, these match-ups are somewhat arbitrary.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-23-2013, 07:57 PM

Contest #12: Battle of the 1967 Title Track songs - "Wild Honey" vs "Magical Mystery Tour"

"Wild Honey" - recorded September 1967

"Magical Mystery Tour" - recorded April-May 1967

My Verdict: There have always been some things I liked about MMT, but other parts of the song I find annoying. The ending is the most interesting (sounds like a Doors song). Overall, I'll put Wild Honey ahead by a hair. It's a good song, though definitely not outstanding. Same with MMT.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 03-23-2013, 08:26 PM

Since Surell mentioned "She's Goin' Bald" I might as well pair it up with a Beatles song. Off the top of my head this is kinda-sorta a decent match. With the emphasis on the "kinda-sorta."

Contest #13: Battle of the Weird and Utterly Nonsensical 1967 Songs - "She's Goin' Bald" vs "I Am The Walrus"

"She's Goin' Bald" - recorded July 1967

"I Am The Walrus" - recorded September 1967

My Verdict: The BB song is fun, but I vote for the Beatles tune here. Much more inventive.

03-18-2013, 11:19 PM	#643 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	Time for another one! Contest #11: Battle of the Bizarre Acid Trip Songs - "Tomorrow Never Knows" vs "Cabin Essence" "Tomorrow Never Knows" - recorded April 1966 "Cabin Essence" - recorded Oct & Dec 1966 If you're unfamiliar with the song, I'll put the lyrics below the tune as I did for Surf's Up. You might want to put on headphones for the "Who ran the iron horse" section if you want to try to follow the lyrics (especially the 2nd iteration). The song is probably better on headphones anyway. The lyrics aren't as obviously an acid trip song as TNK (that said, Tomorrow Never Knows was ostensibly a song about The Tibetian Book of the Dead, even though it really wasn't). However, it was really just as much an acid trip song as its Beatle counterpart. In fact, the song (and much of Smile, for that matter) was based on an acid trip Brian Wilson had at Lake Arrowhead in 1966, according to this (which also puts its own Zen interpretation on things. Who knows, maybe). And as with Surf's Up, we get another great coda. Anyway, the lyrics: Light the lamp and fire mellow, Cabin essence timely hello, Welcomes the time for a change. Lost and found, you still remain there. You'll find a meadow filled with grain there. I'll give you a home on the range. Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? Who ran the iron horse? I want to watch you windblown facing Waves of wheat for your embracing. Folks sing a song of the grange. Nestle in a kiss below there. The constellations ebb and flow there. And witness our home on the range. Who ran the iron horse? (Truck driving man do what you can) Who ran the iron horse? (High-tail your load off the road) Who ran the iron horse? (Out of night-life-it's a gas man) Who ran the iron horse? (I don't believe I gotta grieve) Who ran the iron horse? (In and out of luck) Who ran the iron horse? (With a buck and a booth) Who ran the iron horse? (Catchin' on to the truth) Who ran the iron horse? (In the vast past, the last gasp) Who ran the iron horse? (In the land, in the dust, trust that you must) Who ran the iron horse? (Catch as catch can) Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad? Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad? Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad? Over and over, The crow cries uncover the cornfield. Over and over, The thresher and hover the wheat field. Over and over, The crow cries uncover the cornfield. Over and over, The thresher and hover the wheat field. Over and over, The crow cries uncover the cornfield. Over and over, The thresher and hover the wheat field. --------------------------------- And as an example of how much there is going on in this song ... even though I've listened to this probably 3 or 4 dozen times now, I just "got" the "Have you seen the grand coolie workin' on the railroad?" part. I think the fact I live in Washington state automatically makes me think of Grand Coulee, but that's not what was meant. The song, especially the coda, is like an acid trip over America and its history, if you can imagine such a thing. If you're taking an acid trip on a mountain lake in California, and you're seeing birds and the sun rising or setting, you might end up thinking of something like that for a song. My Verdict: TNK is definitely a weirder song, but Cabin Essence has certain musical qualities I like better, so I call it a tie. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here Last edited by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea; 09-25-2020 at 07:51 PM.

03-20-2013, 08:27 PM	#645 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	^ The instrumental is just as good! Now, you can play a little game. Play both separately, and see if you can get them synced up together. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here

03-20-2013, 08:42 PM	#646 (permalink)
tahúuon Groupie Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 5	The Beach boys with "Surfin' Safari", "Surfin' USA", "Surfer Girl", "Little Deuce Coupe", "Be True to Your School", "In My Room", "Fun, Fun, Fun", "I Get Around", "Dance Dance Dance", "Help Me Rhonda" and "California Girls". I love this band. __________________ tranh theu chu thap\|nghe nhac hay nhat, tai nhac hay

03-23-2013, 07:24 PM	#648 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	^ Hmm, interesting thoughts. One thing I'm trying to do in these comparisons is to get songs recorded within about a year of each other, preferably closer. That way you can track the simultaneous evolution of each band's music. "She's Goin' Bald" was recorded several months after Cabin Essence, so CE gets the nod there. Plus I think SGB isn't really so much an acid trip song as, well, just a weird song. "Love To Say Dada" was another possibility. I chose CE because it seemed a little more, well, "finished" and was a longer song, closer in length to TNK. But as I've said, these match-ups are somewhat arbitrary. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here

03-23-2013, 07:57 PM	#649 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	Contest #12: Battle of the 1967 Title Track songs - "Wild Honey" vs "Magical Mystery Tour" "Wild Honey" - recorded September 1967 "Magical Mystery Tour" - recorded April-May 1967 My Verdict: There have always been some things I liked about MMT, but other parts of the song I find annoying. The ending is the most interesting (sounds like a Doors song). Overall, I'll put Wild Honey ahead by a hair. It's a good song, though definitely not outstanding. Same with MMT. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here Last edited by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea; 09-25-2020 at 07:54 PM.

03-20-2013, 11:16 AM	#644 (permalink)
Quzi Groupie Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 17	There's no need to argue and post videos comparing each stop of each band's respective career. One video solves this argument completely. Recorded just two months after "Mr. Moonlight"

03-23-2013, 08:26 PM	#650 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,172	Since Surell mentioned "She's Goin' Bald" I might as well pair it up with a Beatles song. Off the top of my head this is kinda-sorta a decent match. With the emphasis on the "kinda-sorta." Contest #13: Battle of the Weird and Utterly Nonsensical 1967 Songs - "She's Goin' Bald" vs "I Am The Walrus" "She's Goin' Bald" - recorded July 1967 "I Am The Walrus" - recorded September 1967 My Verdict: The BB song is fun, but I vote for the Beatles tune here. Much more inventive. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here Last edited by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea; 09-25-2020 at 07:56 PM.