The Beatles vs The Beach Boys

Rjinn · 09-24-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Strawberry Fields is sophisticated. It is multi-layered and has great lyrics. The album is 45 years old, but its still pretty fresh and distinct sounding to this day. I'm not gonna Beatle Fan boy out, but they certainly were very crafty songwriters.

What's sophisticated about the lyrics? A small fairytale about "strawberry fields?" I can understand the variety of rhythms/sounds but I would hardly call it layering. They were quite separate. The melodies were simple. Imagination was simple. Lyrics were simple.

But it was creative, I agree. Perhaps that would contribute in a way.

FRED HALE SR. · 09-24-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

What's sophisticated about the lyrics? A small fairytale about "strawberry fields?" I can understand the variety of rhythms/sounds but I would hardly call it layering. They were quite separate. The melodies were simple. Imagination was simple. Lyrics were simple.

But it was creative, I agree. Perhaps that would contribute in a way.

I find it complex. I guess I look at the lyrics as somebody whos dealing with depression and contemplating suicide. I never viewed it as just some guy whos gonna go hang out at a strawberry field and pick strawberries.

NYSPORTSFAN · 09-24-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

What's sophisticated about the lyrics? A small fairytale about "strawberry fields?" I can understand the variety of rhythms/sounds but I would hardly call it layering. They were quite separate. The melodies were simple. Imagination was simple. Lyrics were simple.

But it was creative, I agree. Perhaps that would contribute in a way.

Really why is this debatable? The imagination of the sound simple? "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a deeply layered song with all sorts of instruments ranging from cellos, mellotron, backward cymbals, brass instruments, percussion, Indian instruments added to the basic rock instrumentation. There all sorts of dissonant sounds on the fade out that fades in backwards and then fades out.

Rjinn · 09-24-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

I find it complex. I guess I look at the lyrics as somebody whos dealing with depression and contemplating suicide. I never viewed it as just some guy whos gonna go hang out at a strawberry field and pick strawberries.

Neither did I, the song didn't come off that realistic to me. Just an escape to imagination land.

Though contemplating suicide? That's an interesting interpretation...

**Janszoon** · 09-24-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYSPORTSFAN

The Beatles were not a mere "pop" band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYSPORTSFAN

...now you are bringing in other genres into this in the context of the Beatles genre of pop/rock music a lot of what they did is radical.

Around and around it goes. First you demand that the Beatles not be considered pop because they're so "experimental". Then, when I point out artists from their era or before who were much more experimental, you retreat back into "Beatles as pop innovators" territory. This shifting of goal posts and definitions seems to be a hallmark of conversations about the Beatles status, sadly. It would be great if people could simple say they were a good band who made some great pop music and leave it that instead of trying to make the argument that they were magical beings who shat rainbows.

FRED HALE SR. · 09-24-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Around and around it goes. First you demand that the Beatles not be considered pop because they're so "experimental". Then, when I point out artists from their era or before who were much more experimental, you retreat back into "Beatles as pop innovators" territory. This shifting of goal posts and definitions seems to be a hallmark of conversations about the Beatles status, sadly. It would be great if people could simple say they were a good band who made some great pop music and leave it that instead of trying to make the argument that they were magical beings who shat rainbows.

I always wished people would do that with both bands. Brian Wilson puts his panties on one pant leg at a time also. They were both pop bands that added influential elements to their music to add texture. ****ting rainbows would have been great for their stage shows though, the possibilities.

**Janszoon** · 09-24-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

I always wished people would do that with both bands. Brian Wilson pits his panties on one pant leg at a time also. They were both pop bands that added influential elements to their music to add texture. ****ting rainbows would have been great for their stage shows though, the possibilities.

I've actually never heard anyone do that with the Beach Boys. The praise they get seems to usually be along the lines of "Brain Wilson wrote some brilliant pop music in his day", which I think is pretty accurate.

I'm not so sure about him putting on his pants one leg at a time though, he probably needs someone to do it for him.

Rjinn · 09-24-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYSPORTSFAN

Really why is this debatable? The imagination of the sound simple? "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a deeply layered song with all sorts of instruments ranging from cellos, mellotron, backward cymbals, brass instruments, percussion, Indian instruments added to the basic rock instrumentation. There all sorts of dissonant sounds on the fade out that fades in backwards and then fades out.

Now you're just talking mostly technical with a number of instruments. Taking it as the whole idea and big picture, really there's not much to it. Fading out and in isn't exactly "sophisticated" and uncommon. Again I would hardly call it deeply layered because the rhythms were interchanging but apart and you kind of had to wait for the next one to come along.

NYSPORTSFAN · 09-24-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Around and around it goes. First you demand that the Beatles not be considered pop because they're so "experimental". Then, when I point out artists from their era or before who were much more experimental, you retreat back into "Beatles as pop innovators" territory. This shifting of goal posts and definitions seems to be a hallmark of conversations about the Beatles status, sadly. It would be great if people could simple say they were a good band who made some great pop music and leave it that instead of trying to make the argument that they were magical beings who shat rainbows.

Honestly you don't get what I am saying. The Beatles were pop but at the same time were extremely experimental and yes you can be both at the same time though it's not an easy thing to do.

There are things Sun Ra did that the Beatles didn't do but at the same time Sun Ra didn't do things the Beatles did. In the end you might not like hearing this but the things the Beatles did reached more people than Sun Ra did and frankly Frank Zappa who was a satirical composer and not really a songwriter IMO. I remember reading how members of the Velvet Underground poking fun at Zappa at the Beatles beating him at his own game.

It's reality the Beatles have influenced more musicians than your so-called underground groups is because the Beatles had the right combination of melody, song structure and experimenation. If you think Sun Ra has influenced more musicians than the Beatles or more innovative you are sadly mistaken. Do me a favor read the link below maybe you might get what I am saying.

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/..._Odyssey.shtml

NYSPORTSFAN · 09-24-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Now you're just talking mostly technical with a number of instruments. Taking it as the whole idea and big picture, really there's not much to it. Fading out and in isn't exactly "sophisticated" and uncommon. Again I would hardly call it deeply layered because the rhythms were interchanging but apart and you kind of had to wait for the next one to come along.

Please give me an example like "Strawberry Fields Forever" which basically manages to fuse the world of electronica, Indian instrumentation, avant garde , classical all in one song? Please give me another example of a song that fades out and fades in with a dissonant musical piece?

I guess you have to be Brian Wilson or music producers of 1967 to understand what I am talking about?

I don't think the Beatles are the start and ending of music but have a little perspective in what they were doing.