Michael Jackson

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-05-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueGreenMood

You love MJ and Janelle?! Nice! Didn't mention it in the JM thread, but she's my #2 to MJ.

Totally agree with your entire post.

To me Destiny is kind of the beginning of MJ's adult career with songs like Bless His Soul, That's What You Get For Being Polite, and Things I Do For You- I'd say Shake Your Body to the Ground was a show at his hitmaking abilities, but the latter are more what I see in MJ as an emotive songwriter. Triumph is also an interlude between OTW and Thriller with Can You Feel It being the first killer track MJ wrote. WDAN and DSTYGE were great, but there was more oomph with MJ's music starting in the 80s- I think it was the darker sound that was ultimately so him that was showed off in Triumph, hinted a lot in Thriller, diluted in Bad, but still there, and fully realized in Dangerous and continued throughout the 90s. So happy to meet an MJ fan who is appreciative of Morphine and Is It Scary. Stranger In Moscow and Morphine are tied as my favorite MJ songs.

I felt like HIStory and Blood On the Dance Floor was MJ just blurting all his feelings out, while still leaving some mystery of course, but then when it came to Invincible he kind of downgraded himself stylistically although there are still some classic songs on that album. What's your opinion on Invincible?

MJ's songwriting is another thing as his beatboxing really shows how much he was involved and how the music was in his head! I love the beatbox Beat It demo that was released on the This Is It CD. Have you seen all the other snippets of MJ beatboxing on YouTube, it rocks!

I love Janelle as well. I am not into alot of current mainstream artists but she is amazing. I dont really consider her that mainstream but she deserves to be because she is more talented and interesting than alot of what is being played on the radio today.

I think once the "Jackson 5" left Motown that was the turning point for Michaels adult career because it really allowed him to grow as a singer and as a songwriter. It allowed him to become a "artist" and not just a entertainer. Dont get me wrong, I love the Little Michael/Jackson 5 Motown period ALOT. However, alot of the songs were really formulaic and Michaels singing style was as well. They also did not have much contribution in the songwriting and production. Once the Jacksons went to Epic Records, Michael began to actual write his own music as well as his brothers. They were more instrumental in the making of their music, choregraphy, etc than they were when they were with Motown. I love all the Jacksons album and I think they all are filled with classics and gems.

The Jacksons self titled album was an important album despite the lack of fan love it receives because it was the first album they made since breaking away from Motown. Many many underrated gems from this album and classics. Gamble and Huff put their foot in the production of this album and The Jacksons/Joe Jackson were smart for collaborating with them.

Highlights: Show You The Way To Go, Enjoy Yourself, Blues Away - Michaels first official song he had written.

I love Goin' Places and highlights on the album for me are Different Kind of Lady and Find Me A Girl. These songs are amazing and you can tell Michael was cuttin up on these lol and was really breaking through as a vocalist. Alot of the adlibs and style of singing he did on these records he would not have been able to do on Motown.

Destiny is one of my all time favorites as well and there are alot of classics from the album such as "Thats What You Get For Being Polite", Things I do For you, Bless His Soul (fantastic production and powerful vocals from MJ) and Shake Your Body Down to the Ground- CLASSIC. I agree with your opinion on the latter as well. It shows his ability to connect with emotions and with people.

I agree with your theory on Triumph which is a MUST have album. The album is flawless from beginning to end. I dont particularly care for "Wondering Who" though outside of the funky production. If Michael was singing lead it probably would have been better.

My favorite tracks are: Everybody (LOVE LOVE LOVE this song it reminds me of Michaels OTW-Get On The Floor) Give It Up--- unique singing style, Time Waits For No One- love his vunerability, This Place Hotel--- one of the best songs Michael has written and flawless production, Walk Right Now, and Lovely One. Triumph is more darker and mysterious but I think the theme was more reflective of Michaels emotions than the emotions of his brothers especially on This Place Hotel.

Stranger in Moscow is a masterpiece, I love it!

HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor are very political, dark, loud, and in your face. Invincible is Michaels weakest album but it is not as bad as critics made it to be which mostly had to do with the sales during the time the album was released. It has since sold over 10 million copies world wide which is his lowest in terms of sales.

Invincible was not as great as his previous albums we have discussed but it does have a few gems/classics on the album. Michael could still kick a ss vocally and went back to making R&B. My favorite tracks are: Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Whatever Happens, Threatened, Unbreakable and Speechless.

I think the problem I had with Invincible was the lack of cohesiveness and Michael did not write alot of the songs on the album. I think he added more songwriters because he wanted to keep up with the times and wanted outside perspectives on the current music scene. I was disappointed because he is a great songwriter and producer. He did not have to do that. The album has aged pretty well. It sounds like it could have been made in 2013.

Yea Ive seen all of Michaels beat boxing videos!!! That is usually how he comes up with the beats to his music. He first beat boxes it and from there he comes up with the melodies (which is pretty darn cool lol). I just thought it was cool how on those particular two songs the production is just a loop of him beat boxing although it sounds like instruments. He was very involved with his music. He was an artist and I dont pay the detractors any mind who want to argue otherwise.

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-05-2013, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 216

hey mj fans im not trollin just want to ask the question and see what 'real' mj fans think of his child molestation stuff.

heres a link to court documents revealing the stuff they found in his house

link

and i read recent reports he spent between 25-35 mil to cover up molestation stuff

does this taint ur image of him at all or what do you think

thanks

Sure

Ive come to realize that people are going to think what they want to think regardless of evidence, regardless of the truth, etc. Its just unfornate we live in a society that is lazy,gullible and doesnt like to research facts and instead relies on the media for their misinformation. We live in a society that likes to throw tomatoes at people who are "different" and make people feel bad because of their eccentric ideals. Being different isnt a crime but we like to label and condemn those who are themselves because its consequences for being yourself. If you were singing and performing on stage since the age of 5, of course you are psychologically going to be different from "ordinary" people but that doesnt make you a "bad" human being.

Now as far as the case is concerned, anybody that followed the 2005 trial saw the mother and child lied on the stand. There were celebrity witnesses that said that the parents tried to befriend them so they can get money from them. (Jay Leno being one). The case was about money and extortion .

Michael had befriended alot of people that took advantage of him unfornately. He gave alot of money to charities, scholarships, hospitals, and programs. He practically opened his house to all these people that just took advantage of his kindness.

The same scenario was the case in 1993. There was no charges that were even filed. Michael had befriended the accusser and provided alot of financial assistance toward the family and once he stopped the father of the accusser demanded more money and Michael refused. This is when he went to the police with the accussation and it is recorded on tape that he said that he wanted to ruin Michaels career if Michael did not pay him. The MOTHER of the accusser said that she did not see any wrong on Michaels part and that her husband was lying.

There was a search warrant where the investigators had to take personal photos of Michaels penis, thighs, and naked bod as part of the investigation. The investigators saw the boy was lying because he inaccurately described Michaels penis as being circumcised and he isnt. Michaels autospy latered confirmed this. This is why no charges were filed.

Michael gave the accusser 20 million dollars but this was after the investigators decided that it wasnt enough evidence to go to trial. Michael paid because he wanted to move on with his career not because he was covering up anything.

Dont you think if a parents child was really molested they would press charges????? What parent would accept money from someone who molested their child??? Why would they take money if they thought their son was really molested? Obviously, they got what they wanted which was the money. His father recently committed suicide soon after Michael passed.

djchameleon · 08-05-2013, 08:34 PM

I understand being eccentric but why do you need an alarm that sounded once anyone began to enter the hallway leading up to it?

Quote:

“The long-term psychological consequences of (Jackson’s) threats, sexual trauma and mental manipulation imprisoned (Robson’s) mind and prevented him from filing a timely claim just as effectively as if he had been physically imprisoned,” the paperwork obtained by the Daily News states.

Robson previously said he wasn’t able to identify the abuse until he started intensive psychothearpy after back-to-back nervous breakdowns in 2011 and 2012.

This is more than likely reason enough for him to only just now get around to making these claims.

Source: Alleged Michael Jackson molestation victim Wade Robson attempts to file late lawsuit - NY Daily News

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-05-2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I understand being eccentric but why do you need an alarm that sounded once anyone began to enter the hallway leading up to it?

This is more than likely reason enough for him to only just now get around to making these claims.

Source: Alleged Michael Jackson molestation victim Wade Robson attempts to file late lawsuit - NY Daily News

I know I will probably come off as a MJ stan...... but I disagree with this.

First off, Wade Robson testified under oath in Michaels 2005 trial ON MICHAELS BEHALF. He has defended Michael on MORE than one occassion for over 20 YEARS AND as recent as 2012 where he said that he was excited about performing/directing in the Michael Jackson Immortal World Tour show but he was declined for the position and Jamie King got the position. (I think this partially the reason why he is lying)

Michael was the one that got Wade into the entertainment business and befriended him and his family when he was younger. Wade Robson said himself under oath that he hardly ever saw Michael because he was always on tour. Wade has not been a in demand choregrapher for over a decade and has been having money problems for over the last couple of years. He never was a friend to Michael and just used him for the status and money and before you go saying he doesnt want money.

Wade Robson made it clear that he wanted money when he filed that creditors claim in May demanding the Michael Jackson Estate give him money because MJ sexually abused him :/ What kind of bull**** is that? He expects the MJ estate to just hand him over money because HE wants it lol

It would be easy for ANYONE to accuse Michael Jackson of something since the man is no longer here to defend himself

Where was the trauma when Wade Robson was doing countless interviews, tributes and requested to direct the Michael Jackson Cirque Du Soleil Show last year?

If you want justice, why wait 20 years? Why wait till Michael Jackson has passed? Why file a creditors claim ASKING FOR MONEY if you are SEEKING JUSTICE?

Give me a break..... The loon wants money. I just feel sorry for MJ's kids because they have to watch there father's so called friends drag him through the mud for money. Sad MJ didnt have no real friends, everybody used him.

djchameleon · 08-06-2013, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

If you want justice, why wait 20 years? Why wait till Michael Jackson has passed? Why file a creditors claim ASKING FOR MONEY if you are SEEKING JUSTICE?

The quote I posted shows you why he waited and what was going on. It explains the psychological trauma that MJ put him through to make it seem like everything was okay and that he wasn't abused.

Also, if he didn't do anything shady then why did he need an alarm to alert him when someone was coming down the hallway?

BlueGreenMood · 08-06-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 216

hey mj fans im not trollin just want to ask the question and see what 'real' mj fans think of his child molestation stuff.

heres a link to court documents revealing the stuff they found in his house

link

and i read recent reports he spent between 25-35 mil to cover up molestation stuff

does this taint ur image of him at all or what do you think

thanks

You most likely read from unreliable sources as I have an MJ google alert primarily for music, but I get news. A bunch of sketchy outlets were reporting on this with what I'm pretty sure is a tabloid magazine as their only source for "research". This more reliable resource actually did their research:
Tabloid report on Michael Jackson 'FBI files' questioned - CNN.com

Besides instead of looking to sketchy outlets, why don't you actually look at the files? They're available to the public. Your lazy research is as bad as MJ stans who don't bother to look into anything and think MJ is a frikkin' angel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

The quote I posted shows you why he waited and what was going on. It explains the psychological trauma that MJ put him through to make it seem like everything was okay and that he wasn't abused.

Also, if he didn't do anything shady then why did he need an alarm to alert him when someone was coming down the hallway?

For your first point, it's honestly up to you what you believe in. Realistically I only believe MJ is innocent 99.9%. I have learned in one psychology class that research is finding repression is an unlikely experience.

He's a high profile celebrity, what do you think? In my early fan days, I read a lot about MJ because I had heard of the allegations as a child. There was one happening that stuck with me when this creepy chick hid in the kitchen of the Jackson Encino home and was able to stay there for some time in an attempt to meet MJ. There are some dangerous fans out there. I remember reading on this suicidal fan who was gonna kill him or herself if MJ didn't intervene in the FBI files I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

I love Janelle as well. I am not into alot of current mainstream artists but she is amazing. I dont really consider her that mainstream but she deserves to be because she is more talented and interesting than alot of what is being played on the radio today.

I think once the "Jackson 5" left Motown that was the turning point for Michaels adult career because it really allowed him to grow as a singer and as a songwriter. It allowed him to become a "artist" and not just a entertainer. Dont get me wrong, I love the Little Michael/Jackson 5 Motown period ALOT. However, alot of the songs were really formulaic and Michaels singing style was as well. They also did not have much contribution in the songwriting and production. Once the Jacksons went to Epic Records, Michael began to actual write his own music as well as his brothers. They were more instrumental in the making of their music, choregraphy, etc than they were when they were with Motown. I love all the Jacksons album and I think they all are filled with classics and gems.

The Jacksons self titled album was an important album despite the lack of fan love it receives because it was the first album they made since breaking away from Motown. Many many underrated gems from this album and classics. Gamble and Huff put their foot in the production of this album and The Jacksons/Joe Jackson were smart for collaborating with them.

Highlights: Show You The Way To Go, Enjoy Yourself, Blues Away - Michaels first official song he had written.

I love Goin' Places and highlights on the album for me are Different Kind of Lady and Find Me A Girl. These songs are amazing and you can tell Michael was cuttin up on these lol and was really breaking through as a vocalist. Alot of the adlibs and style of singing he did on these records he would not have been able to do on Motown.

Destiny is one of my all time favorites as well and there are alot of classics from the album such as "Thats What You Get For Being Polite", Things I do For you, Bless His Soul (fantastic production and powerful vocals from MJ) and Shake Your Body Down to the Ground- CLASSIC. I agree with your opinion on the latter as well. It shows his ability to connect with emotions and with people.

I agree with your theory on Triumph which is a MUST have album. The album is flawless from beginning to end. I dont particularly care for "Wondering Who" though outside of the funky production. If Michael was singing lead it probably would have been better.

My favorite tracks are: Everybody (LOVE LOVE LOVE this song it reminds me of Michaels OTW-Get On The Floor) Give It Up--- unique singing style, Time Waits For No One- love his vunerability, This Place Hotel--- one of the best songs Michael has written and flawless production, Walk Right Now, and Lovely One. Triumph is more darker and mysterious but I think the theme was more reflective of Michaels emotions than the emotions of his brothers especially on This Place Hotel.

Stranger in Moscow is a masterpiece, I love it!

HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor are very political, dark, loud, and in your face. Invincible is Michaels weakest album but it is not as bad as critics made it to be which mostly had to do with the sales during the time the album was released. It has since sold over 10 million copies world wide which is his lowest in terms of sales.

Invincible was not as great as his previous albums we have discussed but it does have a few gems/classics on the album. Michael could still kick a ss vocally and went back to making R&B. My favorite tracks are: Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Whatever Happens, Threatened, Unbreakable and Speechless.

I think the problem I had with Invincible was the lack of cohesiveness and Michael did not write a lot of the songs on the album. I think he added more songwriters because he wanted to keep up with the times and wanted outside perspectives on the current music scene. I was disappointed because he is a great songwriter and producer. He did not have to do that. The album has aged pretty well. It sounds like it could have been made in 2013.

Yea Ive seen all of Michaels beat boxing videos!!! That is usually how he comes up with the beats to his music. He first beat boxes it and from there he comes up with the melodies (which is pretty darn cool lol). I just thought it was cool how on those particular two songs the production is just a loop of him beat boxing although it sounds like instruments. He was very involved with his music. He was an artist and I dont pay the detractors any mind who want to argue otherwise.

Hopefully "The Electric Lady" will get her somewhere. I thought Dance Apocalyptic was going to be her breakthrough because it was so catchy, but still with her quirkiness.

I'll admit, I haven't checked out MJ's early days with the Jackson 5- way too commercialized for me especially with how young he was and the lyrics he was singing. I'm in the process of getting there eventually because I feel like I owe MJ's artistry to do it.

I have listened to The Jacksons album and the only track that stuck with me was Blues Away. I love seeing the development of his songwriting.

I've listened to Goin' Places and didn't really find anything that were keepers. When I listened to his older stuff, I came to the conclusion that MJ's songwriting and leadership of his own music really really did play a big part in his artistry.

Me too on Wondering Who. If MJ had been singing lead, it probably would have been better. That's kind of the whole problem with Victory. I LOVE Everybody sooo much. It irks me that it didn't tear up the charts as it's such an epic groove!

Yeah, HIStory and BOtDF are both apart of MJ's lovely lovely dark phase.

I feel ya on critics of Invincible. Like many of MJ's albums somehow his personal life was taking hits instead of the music actually. I think the problem with Invincible was the "clunkiness" of the production. My favs are Speechless, DWA, TLC (it's sooo sappy, but I love it!), WH, BoD, and YRMW. That's interesting you say it aged well. I've had some fans say different. I'm not really sure myself. While the heavy production is definitely of this age, some fans say it's kind of stuck in its time, which I can see if I look at some of the music back in 2001.

I don't like when people degrade MJ as an artist because he can't play an instrument or read music. It makes no sense as they are greats who can't either and if you look into him enough you can see how he did his work. Have you ever seen those depositions on YouTube? I love how he explains his songwriting and him beatboxing in court was gold! It was like a free concert and the absurdity of the lady saying her song sounded like Dangerous was hilarious.

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-06-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

The quote I posted shows you why he waited and what was going on. It explains the psychological trauma that MJ put him through to make it seem like everything was okay and that he wasn't abused.

Also, if he didn't do anything shady then why did he need an alarm to alert him when someone was coming down the hallway?

It sounds to me that you want to believe Wade Robson despite evidence that supports that he is simply trying to get money from the Estate.

I dont want to say that I am an expert but I am a psychology major and there is not enough research that supports a "repressed memory" theory. Regardless of what you feel about Michael Jackson as a "personality" I just dont see how you could look over the fact that since Michael has passed Wade has went out of his way to defend him and has done countless tributes. He as recent as last year was excited about directing and choregraphing the MJ Immortal World Tour and to his disappointment was not asked to do so. He has had money problems for over the last couple of years. Michael also financially supported him for a while and promised him alot of career positions that never happened. He also testified under oath that Michael did not molest back in 2005 in a COURT ROOM (Not to mention he was not paid to do that).There are million reasons why he would lie and is seeking money.

And Im sorry the fact that he filed a creditors claim asking for money from the Estate instead of filing charges lets me know that he has another motive. Anybody at this point can come out and say that Michael Jackson molested them since that is something that was a controversial scandel associated with him. I just dont think its fair to not look at all the evidence and motives of the people making these accusations. He was defending the man last year lol and even went to the memorial. Does he really believe people are going to believe this "repressed memory" crap? Why did he wait till after MJ died to come out with this? It seems shady and I dont believe him. He is lying and he made it clear what he wants.

djchameleon · 08-06-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

It sounds to me that you want to believe Wade Robson despite evidence that supports that he is simply trying to get money from the Estate.

I dont want to say that I am an expert but I am a psychology major and there is not enough research that supports a "repressed memory" theory. Regardless of what you feel about Michael Jackson as a "personality" I just dont see how you could look over the fact that since Michael has passed Wade has went out of his way to defend him and has done countless tributes. He as recent as last year was excited about directing and choregraphing the MJ Immortal World Tour and to his disappointment was not asked to do so. He has had money problems for over the last couple of years. Michael also financially supported him for a while and promised him alot of career positions that never happened. He also testified under oath that Michael did not molest back in 2005 in a COURT ROOM (Not to mention he was not paid to do that).There are million reasons why he would lie and is seeking money.

And Im sorry the fact that he filed a creditors claim asking for money from the Estate instead of filing charges lets me know that he has another motive. Anybody at this point can come out and say that Michael Jackson molested them since that is something that was a controversial scandel associated with him. I just dont think its fair to not look at all the evidence and motives of the people making these accusations. He was defending the man last year lol and even went to the memorial. Does he really believe people are going to believe this "repressed memory" crap? Why did he wait till after MJ died to come out with this? It seems shady and I dont believe him. He is lying and he made it clear what he wants.

okay all of that aside. Let's discuss the alarm and the uses for it. What do you think he used it for?

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-06-2013, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

okay all of that aside. Let's discuss the alarm and the uses for it. What do you think he used it for?

Michael Jackson was the biggest star on the planet and was one of the richest so if he wanted to have an alarm on his door to notify him of who was going in HIS room then I dont see a problem with it.

I probably would have done the same thing if I was in his position. There were break in's at Neverland and Michael couldnt trust anybody. He also thought people were out to kill him because he received death threats. When you cant trust people and you have paranoia that people are out to kill you then it should not be that bizarre that he would set an alarm to notify him when people were coming towards his room.

I think the usage was for protection and especially since he had children of his own.

djchameleon · 08-06-2013, 03:00 PM

It wasn't protection for his children, it was protection of just his room. He didn't care to have alarms for their rooms or the hallways leading up to theirs.

He needed to make sure no one caught him in the act and could hide the jesus juice when necessary