Freebase Dali

You're missing the point.

The comparisons weren't meant to prove a relationship between being almost naked at a baseball game vs a funeral. I didn't think I'd have to spell that out.
I'm talking about placing a general importance on what affects other people when you have to share a planet with them, and not calling it 'conformity' when it's damn well not.

Goblin Tears

Yes, but you used two much more extreme situations to illustrate that point, and then tack on the whole ''Im not conforming. I'm just as inconsiderate as GaGa'' thing, when really, that doesn't compare either.

Anyway, I've been to some sports matches, and a lot of guys go topless, some showing just as much skin as GaGa. And yes, people should be aware of what impact they have on others, but people are responsible for their own emotional reactions to non-harmful behaviours. This shouldn't be a one way street either, the guys who are booing GaGa are honestly far more immature and inconsiderate than she is. I recently read about a lesbian who was denied access to her prom because she wanted to wear a tuxedo; were the organizers of that event considering the feelings of the girl in question? No.

Freebase Dali

What do I have to do for you to stop critiquing a comparison we already established wasn't the point of the discussion?

About that poor lesbian, that's just wrong.
But if we want to get into ridiculously non-comparative comparisons again, which I don't....


Look. I just think GaGa looked like a trailer ho at that game, and I personally thought she could have maybe put aside her whole "individuality" act aside for at least (but obviously didn't because she really did want the attention) long enough to actually be at a ball game to watch the ball game and not cause a ruckus and probably offend multiple people and their children who paid for a fucking ball game and not a pair of fucking Lady GaGa tickets.

VEGANGELICA

Meh...maybe there were all sorts of women wearing bikinis at the game, but only GaGa got the attention because she is famous. I see ads all the time on TV for Victoria's Secrets lingerie...and even here in our tiny Iowan mall, they've got a Victoria's Secrets with gigantic pictures of women in panties and skimpy bras...so I don't know how "non-conformist" wearing a bikini to a ballgame really is.

And anyway (like Goblin Tears says) a lot of men go completely topless and no one gets their undies all in a wedgie over that. Or maybe they do, depending on who it is going topless!

B. I also wear running shoes when I go visit people's churches, because running shoes are the most comfortable, and I don't like this "dress for respect" idea. If the dead person felt, when alive, that I needed to dress up to please him or her or to prove that I liked him or her, then probably that person wasn't much of a friend, anyway.

The difference between me showing up in my skimpy bikini at a ballgame, forcing the sight on people who look in my direction, and a man raping me is that in the former case I cause no direct physical damage or physical harm to anyone. They may be shocked, even horrified...but not a hair on their head will be damaged (if their heads have hair).

Yes, rapists are non-conformists, because they are violating our society's strongest line that we are not supposed to cross: they are physically violating someone, crossing the boundary of space and physically manipulating and handling someone against the victim's will. They are also conformists, conforming to the tired and ancient notion that men "should have power over women."

I actually don't think the law *is* the most important thing, Freebase. I disgree with the laws in the U.S. that allow a man but not a woman to go topless at a sports game. The law is unfair and sexist.

If people are offended by someone wearing something scanty in public, and berate the person, this is no different than people being offended by and targeting someone who is homosexual or bi or transgender and wears "non-conformist" clothing. (And GaGa *was* kissing a woman). I side with people's right to freedom of dress.

Bingo! Yes, yes, and yes, Goblin! I agree with you completely. I also read about the girl denied access to her prom. The school district ended up canceling the prom, and a federal judge said that not allowing Constance (the girl) to go with her female partner was a violation of constitutional rights.

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