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View Poll Results: Best Gaga Album...?!?!
The Fame 5 41.67%
The Fame Monster 3 25.00%
Born This Way 4 33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-09-2011, 06:51 PM   #2221 (permalink)
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Dude, we get it, you don't like Lady GaGa. Your eloquence doesn't make you any less of a troll. You consistently post in a thread about an artist you hate. You have some valid points, and you've made them. You can leave now.
As long as Gaga is being spoken about, she's a relevant piece of pop culture, and I'll put in my two cents. You can't just observe a phenomenon of this size, without having an opinion if it.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:21 PM   #2222 (permalink)
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You're missing out on my point, I think. I don't honestly think Kurt Cobain was that big of a sellout, neither do I hate him. I'm just using dramatic phrasing to illustrate a point. It stems from the fact that I see Ben Butler's criticisms being fairly rock biased, and would easily contend that Cobain is not that much better, or worse, than Gaga.
Your pretty much saying the exact opposite of your last post, but thats cool,i do that all the time too.
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However, Cobain did put his name on a contract, and did collect millions even though he was trying to 'protest' the rockstar image. Therefore, I don't think he honestly meant it, he was just an unstable mind attempting to cope with becoming his own enemy by putting on a different mask. He even knew he was a hypocrite, that's what caused his suicide.
He loved david bowie, freddie mercury, john lennon, all famous rockstars. Kurt cobain wasn't the typical punk your making him out to be. He killed himself because he was depressed, the romantic notion that stardom and "selling out" is what made him suicidal is putting it way too simply. He was depressed and suicidal before nirvana, and without any treatment it's no wonder why he stayed like that.

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Your claims are interesting, but make little sense to me. I mean 'fire people he worked with'... what? Like... fire his band? That doesn't honestly make an iota of sense. Maybe Cobain was very easily manipulated, which some have argued about Gaga, however...
If you want I'll try to dig out this interview later, pretty much MTV threatened to fire people who worked for viacom that Kurt liked if they didn't perform, which is why kurt walked off stage immediatly and kris hit himself in the head with a guitar.

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My basic point is that Gaga, and Cobain sort of empower the same limiting mindset. The same system which disallows listeners to truly come to grips with music. Their flaws are very similar. Gaga is much worse, mind you, but not worse enough to adore one, and revile the other.
Can you please just rephrase this in some other way, I'm not too clear on what your point is.
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Most importantly, They utilise the visual medium more effectively than the musical medium to acquire an audience.
Lady gaga can sell her pussy on tv, Kurt Cobain had sex appeal certainly, but not the same way as lady gaga. Lady Gaga does music video's with any other hot celebrity at the time, and are usually full of poorly-choreographed dance routines. Nirvana's video's aren't really gimmicky, and were few and far between, usually just for one single.

I don't think your factoring in the time period enough when comparing these two. Kurt didn't use mediums to promote himself like artists these days, he just wrote a really, really good pop song.

Lady gaga has staff tweeting, facebooking, website making, emailing, live streaming, recording every ****ing thing she does 24/7

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In that same sense, I think Ben Butler, who I don't dislike, is falling for the same trap in which some Gaga fans do. As much as most Gaga fans might be into the 'fashion', I guarantee you a lot of the Cobain followers do it because of the 'image' that the media sold of him after his death than his actual music. I mean, they even sold him as the perfect godlike family man when it was obvious that he was a confused, semi-narcissistic heroin-binging maniac. He painted his house black, and wrote songs mocking rape/torture victims("Polly want a cracker?").
The media portrayed that plenty, vanity fair ran a whole article and how unfit they were to be parents.

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Nivana's music is more complex than Gagas, but honestly, not by that much. Furthermore, they're both fuelled by a concealing, one sided media which disallows superior musicians with inferior budget to create as powerful of imagery a fair playing field. Willfully, or no, they're both part of the same beast.
Okay..your point is that the media convinces people artists are all on an even playing field? Because everybody understands the difference between pop music and alternative or underground. Whether or not if nirvana and lady gaga's marketing was the same behind the scenes (which it isnt) it really has nothing to do with the music they are making. Nirvana took a really alternative sound and made it popular for masses, lady gaga is just another pop artist who has a good gimmick.

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There's very good reasons to criticise Gaga. I think, like her insane Manson-esqe control of her fans, obsessions with stupid costumes over melodic content, her 0% originality, and such. No need to criticise her for the things that she wants you to think of her.
okay, we are all aware of the reasons to not like her at this point.
Last edited by Sparky; 05-09-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:32 PM   #2223 (permalink)
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See, and these 'monsters' are growing. If you really dig deep into Gaga, and the kind of things she says, it's cult psychology 101.

It's kind of sad, though that it works. I mean, ...., when your saviour is a tacky Madonna knockoff, you have problems.
Sounds like a plot exposition in some sci-fi/horror movie.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:40 PM   #2224 (permalink)
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I don't think your factoring in the time period enough when comparing these two. Kurt didn't use mediums to promote himself like artists these days, he just wrote a really, really good pop song.

Lady gaga has staff tweeting, facebooking, website making, emailing, live streaming, recording every ****ing thing she does 24/7
Well, then, Kurt Cobain's 'staff' has probably been doing so from beyond the grave. I have people STILL hocking 'I love Cobain' shirts.

Regardless, I don't know how to disagree any further with his videos not being a major factor. Because they were THE factor that sold him. Not to say his music was bad, but it was overhyped.

Furthermore, Cobain could have still not answered to threats of firing people he 'liked'. He's not heroic for that.

Now, as for the Gaga fad. I agree, it's far. In fact, it's incredibly dangerous. Especially for the incredibly impressionable group who are so extreme that she is their lives. Factually, they're not out there, but they're probably out there in the thousands. It shelters them from an alternate world, and is extremely exploitive. Her manipulation of technological mediums sadly give her more power than one would think.

Gaga is an 80s dystopian cyberpunk writer's wet dream, and to think that one decade removed HBO's focus was on George Carlin standups, and now is on Gaga concerts speaks volumes of the cultural devolution of our society.

I feel that some may see it as a nuisance, but I honestly feel Gaga is an insult to basic human logic, and philosophy as a whole. However, the stigma of Nirvana, whether it's Kurt Cobain's fault or not, is almost as damaging.

I just wish sometimes people would step back a bit, and realise how out of hand this hero worship stuff actually gets, and exactly how disturbed I am that one person writes a handful of mediocre, dated, uninteresting pop songs, and explodes to such a huge size that he or she completely overshadows the artform. To the point she has an army of people who seemingly mold their entire life around everything she says, as if she's the second coming(and oh... as if she's not proliferating 'hints' at this possibility).

My obsession is a cry to logic, if anything. I don't want people to feel as if I'm bullying, trolling, or just being an ignorant ass. I think there's a very deep philosophical dilemma that Gaga brings to our culture, and it's only fair that it's brought to the table from an uncensored perspective.

That's all.

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Sounds like a plot exposition in some sci-fi/horror movie.

lol, ironically you posted this while I was ranting about it, and used the phrase 'cyberpunk writer's wet dream'.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:18 PM   #2225 (permalink)
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Well, then, Kurt Cobain's 'staff' has probably been doing so from beyond the grave. I have people STILL hocking 'I love Cobain' shirts.
Because no other dead musician has t-shirts, maybe you should go to walmart real quick.
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Regardless, I don't know how to disagree any further with his videos not being a major factor. Because they were THE factor that sold him. Not to say his music was bad, but it was overhyped.
They were a major factor, but not as predominant a factor as they are to lady gaga.
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Furthermore, Cobain could have still not answered to threats of firing people he 'liked'. He's not heroic for that.
Exactly, it makes him a normal ass dude which i like.

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Now, as for the Gaga fad. I agree, it's far. In fact, it's incredibly dangerous. Especially for the incredibly impressionable group who are so extreme that she is their lives. Factually, they're not out there, but they're probably out there in the thousands. It shelters them from an alternate world, and is extremely exploitive. Her manipulation of technological mediums sadly give her more power than one would think.

Gaga is an 80s dystopian cyberpunk writer's wet dream, and to think that one decade removed HBO's focus was on George Carlin standups, and now is on Gaga concerts speaks volumes of the cultural devolution of our society.

I feel that some may see it as a nuisance, but I honestly feel Gaga is an insult to basic human logic, and philosophy as a whole. However, the stigma of Nirvana, whether it's Kurt Cobain's fault or not, is almost as damaging.

I just wish sometimes people would step back a bit, and realise how out of hand this hero worship stuff actually gets, and exactly how disturbed I am that one person writes a handful of mediocre, dated, uninteresting pop songs, and explodes to such a huge size that he or she completely overshadows the artform. To the point she has an army of people who seemingly mold their entire life around everything she says, as if she's the second coming(and oh... as if she's not proliferating 'hints' at this possibility).

My obsession is a cry to logic, if anything. I don't want people to feel as if I'm bullying, trolling, or just being an ignorant ass. I think there's a very deep philosophical dilemma that Gaga brings to our culture, and it's only fair that it's brought to the table from an uncensored perspective.





Dude, are you ****ing new to entertainment or something?

It's not like this is anything new, and citing HBO as an example of the difference older and newer society is ****ing retarded. It seems like you are just as impressionable as these teenage girls by television.

Like you said its a fad, and these girls will be sick of her relatively soon. It's really not that different from My Chemical Romance a couple years ago.

Me, personally, am more creeped out by this royal wedding bull****, like am i missing something, it's just a wedding? Then why the **** am i sposed to care?

You make it sound like Lady Gaga is singlehandidly brainwashing the youth, but look up ODD Future or insaine clown posse if you want real cult following.
Last edited by Sparky; 05-09-2011 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:55 PM   #2226 (permalink)
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Cobain was all bark, and no bite. He signed his contract, and made his millions. He continued to sell, and promote, and be the idol of MTV. He SAYS that he disdains it, but really, actions speak louder than words.

After all, even to this day, flip through a homer's catalogue and it's not impossible you'll see the naked baby swimming after the dollar on hook.

Therefore, Cobain is a hypocrite, and a liar.
Who knows? Kurt Cobain actually was some pop sounding music, like twee. He even had the K Records logo tattooed on his arm. However, I doubt that he would like any of these artists. He probably rolled over in his grave when Justin Beiber said he was the Kurt Cobain of his generation.

He would think that electro pop artists such as Gaga suck, that they don't have any talent and that they are sell outs, I can't really speak for him but from the interviews and his journas he was very anti media and the bands you just named are big because of media not because of talent.

he would be forced to know these invaluable names in todays so called mainstream music industry through the mass media but he would not like them!
Nirvana was a great band and Kurt Cobain's voice was WOW (I think Jared Leto's voice is quite similar to his though!)

He would probably think that : These are the ones, who like all his pretty Songs, and they like to Sing along, while they're shooting off Toy Guns, though they, don't know what they mean, no they don't know what they mean and I say... That's Sad...
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:13 PM   #2227 (permalink)
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He would think that electro pop artists such as Gaga suck, that they don't have any talent and that they are sell outs, I can't really speak for him but from the interviews and his journas he was very anti media and the bands you just named are big because of media not because of talent.
Fairly enough, he capitalised off the same media. To me, though, it's not about Cobain, nor is it about Gaga. It's about hero worship, and taking it out of hand. I don't like the fact these artists hog so much of the spotlight when more original artists obviously go unheard.

Go to youtube, any time, and sift through the videos. Youtube is quite possibly the biggest media source there is right now. Count how many times you see Gaga's face. She's just slathered all over the place. ****, I've even had her suggested to me because I watched video of Sun Ra covering the 'Batman' song(How the hell that connects, I don't know).

It's completely out of hand. As much as I respect a figure like Cobain for his stance on a lot of things, I think him, and Gaga, have the same issue for being overexposed, and both I think have majorly slowed down the natural progression of music.

I'll leave it at that, can we quit speaking of Cobain in this thread, now?
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Terence Hill, as recently confirmed during an interview to an Italian TV talk-show, was offered the role but rejected it because he considered it "too violent". Dustin Hoffman and John Travolta declined the role for the same reason. When Al Pacino was considered for the role of John Rambo, he turned it down when his request that Rambo be more of a madman was rejected.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:20 PM   #2228 (permalink)
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lol some of her stans call her Lady Godga.
Dude, do you want people to get seizures?
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:17 PM   #2229 (permalink)
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love lady gaga!!! i think she is great!
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:33 PM   #2230 (permalink)
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Go to youtube, any time, and sift through the videos. Youtube is quite possibly the biggest media source there is right now. Count how many times you see Gaga's face. She's just slathered all over the place. ****, I've even had her suggested to me because I watched video of Sun Ra covering the 'Batman' song(How the hell that connects, I don't know).

It's completely out of hand. As much as I respect a figure like Cobain for his stance on a lot of things, I think him, and Gaga, have the same issue for being overexposed, and both I think have majorly slowed down the natural progression of music.

I'll leave it at that, can we quit speaking of Cobain in this thread, now?
Of course your going to get a lot of exposure from Lady Gaga on video search engine, she isn't being more exposed then any other pop artist.

Slowed down the natural progression of music? Who the **** do you think you are?

I'm trying to understand your point, but how is lady gaga or any other modern pop artist a bigger negative influence then any other icon throughout time?

Elvis, Kiss, Beatles, Madonna, Sex Pistols, Public Enemy.It's been so consistent throughout time, what is it that makes lady gaga any more controlling then previous icons?

Led Zeppelin has been linked to satan worship and all kinds of weird examples, lady gaga's fans just dress goofy.
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