Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Assuming I'm accusing her of being a sellout is begging the question. All I said was that she changed her image for commercial means, and that her new image presents a woman who is morbidly skinny.

That's all, it's something feminists have been rallying against for years. I don't see how it becomes a bias at all to criticize an musician for using non-musical means to seek attention, and focus. Does it make her music worse? No, but her music is dated, and as dated as it remains, always resembles as a forced relative undercurrent of society.She didn't just start working with 'some guy'. The man isn't just 'some guy'. She went to him specifically to invent a character for her, get her videos funded, and producer her CD. That was his job, he's the guy you go to when you want to become a star.

I mean, if this was politics, and I was a democrat, would it be unreasonable that I continue to peruse a troubling issue brought up by republicans? Fact of the matter is, music is political, and as long as Gaga is talked about, and in the spotlight, I think it's fair for anyone to have a say, regardless of the weight of the opinions.

__________________
Al Pacino = God

Consolator

Lady Gaga posted the lyrics to the title track from her upcoming album, Born This Way. I can't wait to hear it!

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/8e8bt7


"INTRO:
It doesn't matter if you love him, or capital H-I-M
Just put your paws up
'cause you were Born This Way, Baby

VERSE:
MY MAMA TOLD ME WHEN I WAS YOUNG
WE ARE ALL BORN SUPERSTARS

SHE ROLLED MY HAIR AND PUT MY LIPSTICK ON
IN THE GLASS OF HER BOUDOIR

"THERE'S NOTHIN WRONG WITH LOVIN WHO YOU ARE"
SHE SAID, "'CAUSE HE MADE YOU PERFECT, BABE"

"SO HOLD YOUR HEAD UP GIRL AND YOU'LL GO FAR,
LISTEN TO ME WHEN I SAY"


CHORUS:
I'M BEAUTIFUL IN MY WAY
'CAUSE GOD MAKES NO MISTAKES
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN THIS WAY

DON'T HIDE YOURSELF IN REGRET
JUST LOVE YOURSELF AND YOU'RE SET
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN THIS WAY

POST-CHORUS:
OOO THERE AIN'T NO OTHER WAY
BABY I WAS BORN THIS WAY
BABY I WAS BORN THIS WAY
OOO THERE AIN'T NO OTHER WAY
BABY I WAS BORN-
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN THIS WAY

DON'T BE A DRAG -JUST BE A QUEEN
DON'T BE A DRAG -JUST BE A QUEEN
DON'T BE A DRAG -JUST BE A QUEEN
DON'T BE!

VERSE:
GIVE YOURSELF PRUDENCE
AND LOVE YOUR FRIENDS
SUBWAY KID, REJOICE YOUR TRUTH

IN THE RELIGION OF THE INSECURE
I MUST BE MYSELF, RESPECT MY YOUTH

A DIFFERENT LOVER IS NOT A SIN
BELIEVE CAPITAL H-I-M (HEY HEY HEY)
I LOVE MY LIFE I LOVE THIS RECORD AND
MI AMORE VOLE FE YAH (LOVE NEEDS FAITH)

REPEAT CHORUS + POST-CHORUS

BRIDGE:

DON'T BE A DRAG, JUST BE A QUEEN
WHETHER YOU'RE BROKE OR EVERGREEN
YOU'RE BLACK, WHITE, BEIGE, CHOLA DESCENT
YOU'RE LEBANESE, YOU'RE ORIENT
WHETHER LIFE'S DISABILITIES
LEFT YOU OUTCAST, BULLIED, OR TEASED
REJOICE AND LOVE YOURSELF TODAY
'CAUSE BABY YOU WERE BORN THIS WAY

NO MATTER GAY, STRAIGHT, OR BI,
LESBIAN, TRANSGENDERED LIFE
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN TO SURVIVE
NO MATTER BLACK, WHITE OR BEIGE
CHOLA OR ORIENT MADE
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN TO BE BRAVE

REPEAT CHORUS


OUTRO/REFRAIN:

I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!
I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!

I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!
I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!
I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK BABY
I WAS BORN THIS WAY HEY!"

clutnuckle

Well, uhh see... Conversations where uhh... You say something is true, well uh... That should be founded... On fact... And uhh... I sort of feel as though... Without a source and just a hunch based on the history of pop stars and a likely distorted view how she eats/exercises... Then that's... Not... Necessarily true.

By all means, if you find a reliable source that actually tells you this, feel free to show it to me. But INSISTING that she is skinny out of label pressure and not, for example:

- being stressed on tours, not having a healthy diet
- her own psychological issues and not necessarily a person directly telling her (we all know women are constantly tricked into thinking they're fat anyways, and thus they try to make themselves more appealing)

Hell, those seem a lot more plausible. She's a person, not a robot.

This sounds like a movie, to be honest. Inventing characters? Really, now... Once again, source this and I'll believe you. When people work together, obviously they'll rub off on each other, but to attribute all of Gaga's eccentricity to this one man is a bit much.

Her music is hardly dated, either, but I won't even bother getting into that as it's worthless to argue over that when you're clearly so hung up on her image.

If you have a source, then yes. If you have any proof whatsoever, then yes.

The ground is beneath us. Water is wet. The sun is a source of heat. All of those things are either obvious or are accepted because they fall under basic scientific principles. However, this fascination with Gaga's weight falls under no principle, it stems from no 'obviousness', just pure opinion.

Voice your opinion all you want, but if your opinion holds no weight (ie. isn't grounded by fact or sources), it will get nowhere.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

"'Poker Face" Reveals Lady Gaga's Food, Weight, Psychological Issues - ABC News

Like this? /\

__________________
Al Pacino = God

clutnuckle

Well here we go then.

Callahan suggested that Lady Gaga, who's been touring for nearly two years, would not have been able to keep up the pace without proper nutrition. Then again, contradictions seem to be what Lady Gaga is all about.

Then again, there is also the argument here that her producer is involved, so I'll give you points for that. Dunno why you didn't link this earlier instead of saying "The source is simple logic", could've saved us a wall of text!

Like just about every other famous young girl, Lady Gaga had to keep her weight at a ridiculously low level. "From the first time we met her and measured her and checked her for the final [ensembles], she'd lost twenty pounts," says a costumer who worked with her last year. "She self-proclaimed that she didn't eat for weeks to fit into the clothes."

Well that's just a sad thing to have to hear. Though drawing back to your previous point, just for the sake of discussion:

Is it for the money, or for the love of what she wants to do? Like you said, she was a musical prodigy for years and obviously wanted to be recognized. Is it necessarily the money she's after? If she's just after having people recognize her work, then yes it's sad, but she shouldn't disappoint you. If anything you should take pity on her, for she's the one being abused for her dreams. The link even says "Psychological Issues" - are we really narrowing this down to her only becoming thin for the dollar signs? If she legitimately has been diagnosed with some psychological instability, I doubt attacking the dollar signs in her eyes is the right pathway. Compromising yrself for your dreams really is a personal choice. Not like he's compromised musical integrity, just personal integrity.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I think she is a musical prodigy in the sense she's a fantastic duplicator of formulas, but does not take risks inventing new ones. I'm sure she has many psychological ails, but it's hard for me to feel sympathetic for somebody who has all the money, and attention, in the world just because she's willing to do everything, and anything to do it.

Whether it be for money or recognition it's an extremely harmful way of going about acquiring either. She's an adult human being, and should be just as responsible for her decisions as any adult human being. For the sake of the fact that she lost as much weight as she did to fit the image, and makes more money than everyone sends an EXTREMELY harmful message, and whether it be money or recognition, the reasons all boil down to greed. Which is extremely harmful considering exactly how influential she is.

__________________
Al Pacino = God

Consolator

I will never understand your hatred for Lady Gaga. It seems to me like you would have rather her not ever associated with a major record label, and just continued to sit in the corner of obscurity and be unrecognized for her work. You fault her for wanting to widen her audience?

I believe that a good portion of your link is likely true. Does that make me like her less? No. Clutnuckle worded what I would have said perfectly. If anything, I pity her. She's gotten herself trapped in the unjust realm of record labels and pop music. I don't think her struggles with weight send a harmful message necessarily. Don't get me wrong -- I think it's horrible that the industry forces this of their artists. I hope one day this changes. Going back to my original point, I've seen her say time and time again to not do as she does, but to do as she says. What she says is to love others, and more importantly, love yourself.

Something that I'm not sure that has been mentioned, Gaga has been tested borderline positive for lupus, which others in her family have. I mention this because lupus has a multitude of symptoms and ailments that arise, one of this is rapid weight gain or loss.

Also, I doubt she's in it purely for the money.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Lupus does not cause you to lose 20 pounds to fit into clothes given to you. Furthermore, if that's the case, where's the weight gain? She's an adult, and she's made her own decisions. I grew up very very dirt poor around very psychologically ill people. I don't feel sorry for somebody who makes millions of dollars by doing what he, or she has been told just because he or she has some psychological ailments.

Fact of the matter is, her music is poor, and she's famous for all the wrong reasons. Furthermore, if she's doing this for recognition than she's in music for all the wrong reasons, and influencing millions of millions of people some of which seem to literally worship her.

Is that not a reason to hate her?

Maybe I'm too obsessed, I don't know. It just deeply bothers me, always has. One could say she's no better or worse than say Elvis who in a lot of ways was the exact same thing. Still, bothers me that she's the absolute biggest thing in music right now. Not only that, but it confounds me the sheer amount of hype, and exposure she gets for everything from wiping her ass to wearing a silly hat.

__________________
Al Pacino = God

Scarlett O'Hara

Because you're there to see her 'pass out' so to speak. Don't be so ignorant because you don't actually know.

Whoopdido she makes money, good on her. Of course you must think 'real art' doesn't make money right? What a load of rubbish.

Oh and if this bothers you that she is famous for the 'wrong' reasons, then you can scrap just about any celebrity, businessman, entrepreneur and so forth.

You're only picking on Gaga because she's in right now.

__________________

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

It's not rubbish because the point of the topic was the fact Gaga was trying to use non-musical means to gain exposure in a world packed full of superior musicians who get less. If she were simply concerned of the quality of her art, she obviously would not have contacted a businessman with hopes of redefining it to make it more digestible. Obviously, Mr.Fusari's job was specifically to advise her to dumb down her art, and give her a more marketable image. There are worlds of artists who don't do this because they want to maintain creative integrity, and want their art to be examined simply for it's artistic merit, not for the characters they create of themselves.

Celebrities are debatable. Some celebrities do it off of talent(Marlon Brando), and some just are useless but have the right look(Sean William Scott). With that said, celebrity narcissism is just as vile. However, it's not a topic as this is 'music banter' not 'celebrity banter' so it wouldn't really be relevant. As for businessmen, and entrepreneurs, they aren't really starving themselves, are they? Neither are they famous. This is an incredibly illogical argument.

Well, it wouldn't make much sense for me to be ripping into MC Hammer now, would it?

__________________
Al Pacino = God