Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

In Hitler's defense, he supported a lot of Wagner and operay type stuff. In fact the Carl Orf Classic "Carmina Burana"(A work that has done infinitely more for the application of vocals in music than somebody like Lady Gaga could) was composed entirely within Nazi Germany. Albeit, not directly linked to Hitler, I'm assuming it was a lot trying to push for those types of musical sensibilities. So, even if Hitler was bad for a lot of things, and his persecution of Jews would rob the world of many of the finest songwriters we've ever known, he wasn't entirely bad for music.

So, no, he's not as bad as Lady Gaga at least in one regard...

...Anyway. I'm sidetracking from my point even continuing to post on this. Barring my rude sarcasm, my original statement should hold relevance to anybody sympathetic to a music industry where a good 90% of the most cutting artists are frankly just not making money, or garnering attention.

To bring back to head, I know pop probably isn't the most popular genre for hardcore music people this type of forum generally attracts. However, I was just reinforcing a point made by somebody else that maybe there's more going on than just Lady Gaga, and if nothing in particularly interesting is going on then why is she always the topic of conversation?

I feel the "quit bitching about it" response is rather harsh considering how we're speaking as fans(or least fans of some of the byproducts of) of a multi-billion dollar industry, and certainly if Gaga is, admittedly, overexposed, we could try maybe rather than throwing dead wood on the heap, bring some exposure to new things.

Maybe the world isn't a place for opening minds, but this particular forum very damn well can be.

Either that, or we can continue to discuss the deep intricacies of the shape of Lady Gaga's snot as she sneezes onto a kleenix and respond to anyone who says "what's the point of it?" respond with "Well, tough ****, that's how things are!"

Scarlett O'Hara

What the hell is your problem bb?

Comparing Lady Gaga to Hitler is just ridiculous, don't you think Obama is just as talked about in regards to Politics? Lady Gaga is hardly killing anybody or organising reform of an entire country, she just sings pop music! I don't know why you have your knickers in a twist because one artist is talked about more than others. What's so wrong with that? It's called popular music for a reason!


I have an open mind because I like more than one genre, and liking Gaga is not a crime or being close minded. I'm pretty sure it's down to people and their individual tastes. Hell Big3 has extensive music taste and he made the damn thread!

I repeat, get over it.

__________________

Consolator

I'm not sure what's worse -- the fact that you compared Lady Gaga to Hitler, or the fact that you expect mainstream news outlets to not be pieces of ****. Celebs' mundane lives have been "news-worthy" for quite some time now. I think it's unnecessary, but hey, it sells. They see that Lady Gaga has a huge following, so naturally they're going to mention her as much as they can. I've had a problem with US news outlets for a while now, but the fact that you're blaming Lady Gaga for this is sloppy arguing.

You're right that she does take up much of the spotlight now in the music industry -- which I don't really think she deserves a lot of the time. Again though, who do you think wants Lady Gaga to be successful more than anyone (besides herself, perhaps.) Her LABEL. They know she's a big name right now and they're going to milk this cash cow as much as they can. It isn't this often that pop artists have such wide-reaching, penetrating power. Your overall problem with her seems more about the way pop music runs and the nature of the business. It isn't something I think is fair at all, but what good is going to come from whining about it on some online message board?

When it gets down to it, I enjoy her music and appreciate her concern for gay rights (which I think it's ****ing retarded that it's such a polarizing issue in the US.) She's vocal of her views, which is something that can't be said of that many pop stars at the moment. She has used her

By the way, if you're so sick and tired of her, why are you in this thread?

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Cause venting in a multi-thousand person large music forum thread isn't going to really glorify her that much, but it will make me feel better because that's what venting is.

Besides, we're blaming the media outlets? She did it, honestly. She put the spotlight on herself by her will. It was an act that obviously took a lot of effort, and distraction.

No, she's not as bad as Hitler. I was just using a dramatic hyperbole as an example of sometimes you have to question something if it's wrong regardless of your peers, and this is wrong.

However, Gaga sends a bad message to any aspiring artist because she essentially bends over backwards, forwards, and sideways to appease their wills(as all of the other ones Viacom has in their little barrel). She's amazingly charismatic, admittedly. I mean, I wouldn't care enough to hate her if she wasn't doing something wrong.

However, that something is NOT being an artist. It's exposing how flawed the system is, and making it even more flawed to keep her security at the risk of millions of musicians who don't have the money to tour because they take real risks, and actually take their art seriously as an expression rather than a quick money grab.

She is sticking her fingers in everyone else's pie. This is one of a million silenced please to end the madness, and nothing more.

This will be my final post on the topic because, yes, it's incredibly hypocritical for me to keep this going, while complaining about Gaga getting too much attention.

However, I want to leave a final word that "accepting it" is not acceptable. This "just give up" is the problem mentality. If Gaga is a problem, and she is, anybody should have the right to openly complain(It is 150% equally as relevant as the complimentary comments involving her), because it is a problem. If you are bothered by people complaining, maybe you should take a second to think about how much other people who have this bitch shoved down their throat every ****ing second of daily life it seems.

This is entirely reactionary.

Is it really too unreasonable to simply ask "Why do we care about these menial things involving this woman who is supposed to be a musician that have nothing at all to do with music, and have no artistic relevance to anything"? All I want is for people to wait for Gaga to bring something new to the table, or fall out of the spotlight for a second enough for something to be brought up that we haven't heard before? I haven't heard anything said about her in forever that even closely resembled fresh relevant news. It's just rehashing, and opinions. "I love her" or " I hate her". I think it's not too much to ask that some of that energy spread out a little.

That a lot of Gaga fans would explore the world beyond Gaga and their television just a little. They can get back to it when something, anything, remotely relevant happens involving. (CD Release, Winning ten thousand obviously rigged awards that are a thinly veiled advertisement for acts that are ALREADY popular, etc...). Something important, and music related. Put her to rest for a bit, and let a little sunshine shine. (Reinforcing Rez's original point which I felt I needed to since it was almost exactly as I felt. Even if it was a more lighthearted rendition).

P.S. To clarify, I'm not hinting her fans are stupid or close minded. Especially since the root of open minded is to like things regardless of what others think. Apart from the complete extreme super-zombies who want to collect her butthairs to build in a Murial of her in their dead cats skin(In which they only feed Gaga-kitty bites to, and only those, even after they were recalled. It's why they are dead.), her fans are not the problem(and yes, those people do exist in abundance), in general. It's mostly herself, and the system she choses to exploit.

I only wish this viewpoint would be allowed on television rather than being the subject if silly internet back and forth slapfests. It's our right to demand mainstream media give us an alternative.

Scarlett O'Hara

Does anyone feel like Skaligojurah has not actually described what she is doing wrong according to him?

Yeah you really need to give it up, you make hardly any sense to me. I'm not really sure what she is 'exploiting' that is any different from the Beatles and Britney Spears who used mainstream media to sell their music.

__________________

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I've said my final piece. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't.

Arya Stark

Like I said earlier, you come into these threads to have a conversation.
Don't say your part and not care if anyone understands you.
If you have something to say, say it clearly so we can banter about these here musics.

__________________

MB Journal.
Azucar y Especia. My blog.

Consolator

I think I got he was trying to say. He's more pissed at the pop music industry than Lady Gaga herself. Someone said the exact same thing to me in the Ke$ha thread a while ago. They were angry that truly "talented" and "good" artists were being pushed down by soul-less electronic music. If you really want to talk about this, I think you'd be better off making a new thread about this than to bring it up at random times in pop artist threads.

He mentioned he hates how when she wears something slightly odd it makes news headlines, which really is more the fault of the news media outlets and our citizens. The news wouldn't advertise that stuff if people didn't buy it. His rant was ultimately a broad one against people in the US. Lady Gaga is part of the problem, but it goes much deeper than just her.

I find it so funny that there are people on this board expect record labels (particularly ones with well-established pop artists) to give them mostly really good, unknown artists that do have talent / or something great to bring to the table. Think about it, why would a label want to do that? Not why YOU would want them to do that, but what good would that do for the label? Above all, it's a business.

I echo Vanilla's statement. You all know where to find kickass obscure music. Whether it be this message board, youtube, myspace, a random music blog, lastfm, whatever. Instead of wasting your time whining like an child, go find some new unknown artists and promote the **** out of them. Post about them on this board. Post about them on your facebook. Tell your close friends about them. To me, that's really the way to find good music. Through word of mouth with friends of similar tastes. Not listening to "pop radio" or anything particularly mainstream. Don't get me wrong -- I love pop music. I see the problems with it though, and it's going to take something big to change it.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I honestly don't understand the confusion. In fact, I don't think I can argue the confusion away because it's not confusion at all, and it has nothing to do with the way I'm phrasing things. It's intentional denial. Essentially, Vanilla, imo, is presenting an argument which is the equivalent of sticking his or her fingers in ears and going "La-La-La I can't hear you...". Which is why I posted what I did, I didn't want to be lured further into a murky abyss of unrelated semantics.

We have admitted the media system is crooked, and it's fairly obvious she's abusing it. Fact of the matter is, if her actual songwriting ability was on par with her ability to acquire attention through the countless moronic gimmicks, then there wouldn't be a problem.

Frankly, she's not doing anything to sell her music. She's building a stigma for herself so she can **** in a bag, because she doesn't want to actually have to put effort into writing it, and wants a lot of money. I just wish people could see through this, and we could be giving more deserving artists attention. Furthermore, I wish that I didn't have every stupid unrelated gimmick she tosses out to be shoved down my throat constantly as if it's an act of brilliance, or a culturally relevant event.

I don't think you can put it in more of a nutshell than that, so... I don't know, what else to say?

Goblin Tears

Good advice if there ever was any.

I get confused when people make claims such as ''Beyonce is destroying music'' ''GaGa is overshadowing more important artists'' etc. Poppycock. Nobody is forcing anyone to listen to pop musicians, they are simply placed in a mainstream canon by our culture and society. There's even that abhorrent indie sub-culture (which is actually QUITE large) that claims to loathe the mainstream. It just reeks of insecurity.

Anyway, Beethoven is arguably more mainstream than ANY of these women because he's remained relevant for hundreds of years. So go play the Moonlight Sonata, take a nap, and get a grip on your bearings, because nobody should ever feel threatened by popularity, be it the social or musical kind.