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I just think it's funny when people give an artist so much credit for the messages they infer of their own accord from the art. If her art is ambiguous in its message then it is silly to like her because she is saying a particular thing when you, yourself, have decided what that thing is.
Similarly, others may choose to dislike her because they interpret her art as sending a different message.
All in all, if she has something important to say, she's certainly doing a terrible job of it. i think it's ok to dislike her for that. It isn't ok, however, to like her (or dislike her) for saying something she has never explicitly said.
I dislike her for her irresponsible messages of materialism which are extremely explicit in her art.
Her first album is kinda anti-materialistic (The Fame & Beautiful And Dirty Rich are actually about experiencing such things while being poor), and some of her costumes were bought dirt cheap in charity shops. Her second ablum has nothing relating to materialism, either in her videos or songs. You picked a funny celebrity to call materialistic.
The latest update on the life of Lady Gaga; Ex-PA To Write TELL ALL BOOK!
When you’re Lady GaGa your life is never going to be short of a little controversy. Now the tea-cup carrying mental ones ex-assistant has decided to spill the beans on her time with the star. And she sure doesn’t hold back. Angela Callahan - who says she quit after a telling off from GaGa for bringing her the wrong pair of tights - alleges that a lonely GaGa would make her sleep with her and that they even showered together to save time in the morning. She says in her tell-all book Poker Face: The Rise and Rise of Lady GaGa that the queen of pop was a tough boss and even sacked up to 150 people in just 10 months. GaGa is yet to comment on these revelations, she’s probably too busy polishing her Disco Stick.
Even she saidthat the point of it was to make everyone "feel like they're beautiful, dirty, rich" even if they're poor. It's not about having money
1) This sentence alone undermines anything mildly coherent that you may have said.
2) I was talking about her art. Her interviews and advertisements are not her art and in her art all I see is this:
BLATANT materialism and absolutely nothing about hugging queers or using condoms.
3) If it were just myself I was worried about, i wouldn't give a **** about lady gaga. The truth is that not only I, but 98% of her uneducated fanatics (don't blame me, blame the american education system) refuse to look past her surface. The difference is that I dislike her for it. The rest of grovelling america sees videos like the one posted above and thinks, ****, in order to be that cool I must have a lot of weird clothes... not... oh... I wonder what kind of messages she might be sending about gay marriage and embracing weirdos. Sorry, but this is america... we like the plastic packaging... we care very little about what it's made of. THAT is her irresponsibility. She should know that if you want to get a point across to as many people as possible, you've got to cover it in salt and sugar and put it in a macdonald's box because few people dumb enough to be so obsessed with someone are smart enough to dig deeper into her "message." Those who are smart (like you, honestly) are about 1.5-2% of her main fan base.
How is that video materialism?
So because she likes to stand for homosexuals and love of everyone... EVERYTHING she does has to reflect that?
She's not allowed to have just a fun video?
1) This sentence alone undermines anything mildly coherent that you may have said.
2) I was talking about her art. Her interviews and advertisements are not her art and in her art all I see is this
Her lyrics are part of her art, one of the essential components of it actually, and in her debut album, they are anti-materialistic.
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BLATANT materialism and absolutely nothing about hugging queers or using condoms.
??????
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3) If it were just myself I was worried about, i wouldn't give a **** about lady gaga. The truth is that not only I, but 98% of her uneducated fanatics (don't blame me, blame the american education system) refuse to look past her surface. The difference is that I dislike her for it. The rest of grovelling america sees videos like the one posted above and thinks, ****, in order to be that cool I must have a lot of weird clothes... not... oh... I wonder what kind of messages she might be sending about gay marriage and embracing weirdos. Sorry, but this is america... we like the plastic packaging... we care very little about what it's made of. THAT is her irresponsibility. She should know that if you want to get a point across to as many people as possible, you've got to cover it in salt and sugar and put it in a macdonald's box because few people dumb enough to be so obsessed with someone are smart enough to dig deeper into her "message." Those who are smart (like you, honestly) are about 1.5-2% of her main fan base.
Seems to me like you have more of a problem with America and double digit IQs than Lady GaGa.
My problem is with the combination of these things. Lady Gaga is an influential person in a country which has a problem with materialism and is full of double digit IQ's. i would like her if she would use this position of influence to try to change this instead of feeding materialist obsession.
I've previously stated that I have learned things from this thread that give me a little more respect for her, but the problem that I have with her is one that exists independently of the charitable things you have mentioned. She can speak out for gay rights till the cows come home but if she wears 20 couture outfits in her videos she will still send the message that having all that **** is cool.
Telephone may be a "fun" video, but watch and just try, just try to estimate how much that **** cost.
I think what's getting lost in translation here is that it isn't just lady gaga that i dislike. I think she has many many redeeming qualities (mostly in knowing what the public wants).
She just happens to lack, greatly, in the one area I find most important, which is to help the masses begin to understand that money is not the same as success or happiness. She doesn't need 20 outfits to remain on top of the charts. So why does she choose to have them? Because she couldn't give a **** about the problem of materialism in this society. She is too busy trying to comfort the emo weirdos who had a bad wrap in highschool. The message she has to send (that you are wonderful being who you are, even if you're a weirdo) is equally learned by going to college (and I'm only talking about the social experience). At least there (most of) your money is going to something with actual importance like LEARNING instead of a pair of sunglasses made out of burning cigarettes.
My problem is with the combination of these things. Lady Gaga is an influential person in a country which has a problem with materialism and is full of double digit IQ's. i would like her if she would use this position of influence to try to change this instead of feeding materialist obsession.
She can speak out for gay rights till the cows come home but if she wears 20 couture outfits in her videos she will still send the message that having all that **** is cool.
She wears cheap outfits that she buys from charity shops, then alters them to look weird. Creepy, but not materialistic.
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Telephone may be a "fun" video, but watch and just try, just try to estimate how much that **** cost.
Who cares? Madonna, Michael Jackson, and probably some artists you like, have spent grandiose amounts of money on music videos too. And guess what? In most instances, those videos are in such heavy rotation, that they pay back. Do you honestly think record companies throw money away? And what is the difference between an artist spending a lot of money on a music video, and a big budget film?
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I think what's getting lost in translation here is that it isn't just lady gaga that i dislike. I think she has many many redeeming qualities (mostly in knowing what the public wants).
She just happens to lack, greatly, in the one area I find most important, which is to help the masses begin to understand that money is not the same as success or happiness. She doesn't need 20 outfits to remain on top of the charts. So why does she choose to have them? Because she couldn't give a **** about the problem of materialism in this society. She is too busy trying to comfort the emo weirdos who had a bad wrap in highschool. The message she has to send (that you are wonderful being who you are, even if you're a weirdo) is equally learned by going to college (and I'm only talking about the social experience). At least there (most of) your money is going to something with actual importance like LEARNING instead of a pair of sunglasses made out of burning cigarettes.
I'm beginning to think you're a brighter than average troll.
Who cares? Madonna, Michael Jackson, and probably some artists you like, have spent grandiose amounts of money on music videos too. And guess what? In most instances, those videos are in such heavy rotation, that they pay back. Do you honestly think record companies throw money away? And what is the difference between an artist spending a lot of money on a music video, and a big budget film?
I dislike madonna. I love michael jackson. He should never ever be compared to lady gaga. He has talent beyond anything that lady gaga could dream of in her wettest dreams. That aside, I approve of none of the lavish spending of these artists. But my dislike for lady gaga stems from a combination of multiple factors. I think madonna is pointless but I don't waste much time thinking about her because she's not currently relevent. Michael jackson has done some outlandish things but he is most loved for the supreme quality of his music, not for his image, and so I find his spending less threatening. It's not the focus, just the flash. Still... he could do without. At least he wrote some music with truly thoughtful messages that inspired people (and not just to feel less awkward). But lady gaga is the most famous person in the entire world right now and she is completely image based. Her music is catchy and that's it. The ironic thing here is that if she finds her outfits for cheap, that's great, but it's not the actual amount of money spent that irritates me. It's the image she puts out that living lavishly is the ultimate. There's no diy disclaimer on her video, there's just a lot of flash.
If you could prove to me that most of her fans know that she isn't about the image and spending money and all the things you seem to know about her, I would happily relinquish my statements. But I believe that the majority of her fans see what I see in her videos, which is image-hungry, statement-making, materialism.
And you know, we're both entitled to our opinions. I haven't said that you are wrong for liking her. I've just stated that there are certain things which make me dislike her.
In fact, what you have told me gives me HOPE that i am wrong and that she is truly a positive role model for the majority of her fans. I just doubt it.
If you could prove to me that most of her fans know that she isn't about the image and spending money and all the things you seem to know about her, I would happily relinquish my statements. But I believe that the majority of her fans see what I see in her videos, which is image-hungry, statement-making, materialism.
Well, imo, the onus is on the fans to learn about the artists they like. What do you want Lady GaGa to do? Call around to all her fans at their homes and give them financial advice and budget tips? You're either being playful, or are completely at odds with reality.
I dislike madonna. I love michael jackson. He should never ever be compared to lady gaga. He has talent beyond anything that lady gaga could dream of in her wettest dreams. That aside, I approve of none of the lavish spending of these artists. But my dislike for lady gaga stems from a combination of multiple factors. I think madonna is pointless but I don't waste much time thinking about her because she's not currently relevent. Michael jackson has done some outlandish things but he is most loved for the supreme quality of his music, not for his image, and so I find his spending less threatening. It's not the focus, just the flash. Still... he could do without. At least he wrote some music with truly thoughtful messages that inspired people (and not just to feel less awkward). But lady gaga is the most famous person in the entire world right now and she is completely image based. Her music is catchy and that's it. The ironic thing here is that if she finds her outfits for cheap, that's great, but it's not the actual amount of money spent that irritates me. It's the image she puts out that living lavishly is the ultimate. There's no diy disclaimer on her video, there's just a lot of flash.
If you could prove to me that most of her fans know that she isn't about the image and spending money and all the things you seem to know about her, I would happily relinquish my statements. But I believe that the majority of her fans see what I see in her videos, which is image-hungry, statement-making, materialism.
And you know, we're both entitled to our opinions. I haven't said that you are wrong for liking her. I've just stated that there are certain things which make me dislike her.
In fact, what you have told me gives me HOPE that i am wrong and that she is truly a positive role model for the majority of her fans. I just doubt it.
Just curious, have you actually heard Madonna's music? Not the irritating 80's songs of hers they play on the radio. Tracks such as "In This Life" or "Sky Fits Heaven" or "Cyber-Raga" have clear messages regarding humanity -- to call her pointless is a bit harsh. I agree that she is no longer relevant though.
In regards to Gaga and her fans, anyone that goes to her concert knows what she is all about. They know that she is not just an image. I've seen videos of her speaking words of encouragement to her fans, and her interludes (particularly her "Manifesto of Little Monsters" interlude) at her concerts further enforce her message.
I find it really unnerving that individuals on this message board put down artists as if they know everything about them (when they evidently don't.) If you're going to criticize an artist (and trust me, there are other reasons to criticize Gaga besides her being "materialistic"), at least get your facts together.
Also, just curious, do you expect all famous people to dress like **** and not put any sort of effort into their appearance? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting. A lot of Gaga's fashion is either second-hand or from unknown designers. She is basically a medium for unknown designers to get word of their work out. I don't think she actually pays them for the clothes.
Last edited by Consolator; 09-08-2010 at 11:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by AwwSugar
Have you heard her sing it acoustically, Erica?
It's what made me like her.
I have now, Amandria! I listened to two Youtube videos of Lady Gaga singing her acoustic version of Paparazzi, with the one below being my favorite because of her piano intro. She has a very warm, full, interesting singing voice, and you can see/hear she is feeling her music. She also has a cool pirate-like hat! (Urban Hatemonger should like that! )
I think anyone who doubts that Lady Gaga is a good musician should watch this video:
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Originally Posted by Paloma
Even she said that the point of it was to make everyone "feel like they're beautiful, dirty, rich" even if they're poor. It's not about having money, it's about being weird, and she's saying she accepts all the weirdos.
I feel Lady Gaga's message that you describe comes across in her music and performance art very well, Paloma.
The message reminds me of the movie "Pretty in Pink" about a poor girl (played by Molly Ringwald). I loved that movie because it reminded me of my friends and myself back in the 80s, and because it shows that you can have a rich life even if you aren't financially well off. You don't need a lot of money to have loving family and friends, or to think of creative ways of expressing yourself such as by making your own, unique clothes.
I appreciate that Lady Gaga seems to be doing the same thing as this movie: encouraging individuality and acceptance that we are all different but can still get along.
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Originally Posted by Goblin Tears
Sorry Vengelica, I misread your posts.
The latest update on the life of Lady Gaga; Ex-PA To Write TELL ALL BOOK!
No worries, Goblin. I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't thinking badly of you in any way! The book about Lady Gaga sounds interesting and a little sad.
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Originally Posted by Neapolitan:
If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
I listened to two Youtube videos of Lady Gaga singing her acoustic version of Paparazzi, with the one below being my favorite because of her piano intro. She has a very warm, full, interesting singing voice, and you can see/hear she is feeling her music. She also has a cool pirate-like hat! (Urban Hatemonger should like that! 
)
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