Eminem - Revival

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

On a scale of one to ten, how important is popularity when determining the quality of the artist? I say 1

I don't know. I think it varies.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I don't know. I think it varies.

So...popularity is too inconsistent to be a good way to determine an artist's quality even as part of a whole? Kinda sounds like what I've been saying this whole time.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

So...popularity is too inconsistent to be a good way to determine an artist's quality even as part of a whole? Kinda sounds like what I've been saying this whole time.

Popularity is too inconsistent to use as the main point of validation, but not as meaningless as you try to make it out to be. There are other factors that add into popularity like how consistently popular the artist was. The popularity of Lil Uzi Vert hasn't stood the test of time the same way a Kanye has so it could be completely reactionary. Or you could say that Lil Wayne's newest music is of quality because he's popular when he's really riding off the popularity of his past and the general consensus is that he was of quality and his newer stuff is trash. My Kanye example was perfect. You aren't going to accept the idea that Kanye is a good lyricist so I can bring up the general consensus of his lyrics to validate it. And there are artists that create the illusion of popularity when the consensus is that they are trash. So, as I've said this whole time, popularity is not the deciding factor on the quality of music, but it is more important of a piece of evidence than you want to credit it for because it contradicts your taste.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Popularity is too inconsistent to use as the main point of validation, but not as meaningless as you try to make it out to be. There are other factors that add into popularity like how consistently popular the artist was. The popularity of Lil Uzi Vert hasn't stood the test of time the same way a Kanye has so it could be completely reactionary. Or you could say that Lil Wayne's newest music is of quality because he's popular when he's really riding off the popularity of his past and the general consensus is that he was of quality and his newer stuff is trash. My Kanye example was perfect. You aren't going to accept the idea that Kanye is a good lyricist so I can bring up the general consensus of his lyrics to validate it. And there are artists that create the illusion of popularity when the consensus is that they are trash. So, as I've said this whole time, popularity is not the deciding factor on the quality of music, but it is more important of a piece of evidence than you want to credit it for because it contradicts your taste.

Are we using consensus and popularity interchangeably now?

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Are we using consensus and popularity interchangeably now?

The general consensus or opinion on something would be it's popularity, is it not?

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

The general consensus or opinion on something would be it's popularity, is it not?

I would say popularity is the number of people who listen to them and/or have a positive opinion of them. Fans appreciate music quite differently, so that opens the door to disagreement on what makes the artist great, which would be stepping away from objectivity.

[Maajo]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Popularity is too inconsistent to use as the main point of validation, but not as meaningless as you try to make it out to be. There are other factors that add into popularity like how consistently popular the artist was. The popularity of Lil Uzi Vert hasn't stood the test of time the same way a Kanye has so it could be completely reactionary. Or you could say that Lil Wayne's newest music is of quality because he's popular when he's really riding off the popularity of his past and the general consensus is that he was of quality and his newer stuff is trash. My Kanye example was perfect. You aren't going to accept the idea that Kanye is a good lyricist so I can bring up the general consensus of his lyrics to validate it. And there are artists that create the illusion of popularity when the consensus is that they are trash. So, as I've said this whole time, popularity is not the deciding factor on the quality of music, but it is more important of a piece of evidence than you want to credit it for because it contradicts your taste.

You nailed it. Aggregates of reviews, while imperfect, are neutral and show general consensus. Some people think Metal Machine Music is a classic while others think it's just loud, obnoxious, and a joke at the expense of Lou Reed's record label (it was). I like the new Eminem album, but it seems like it's going to be critically panned. I'm fine with that.

[Frownland]

Yo Lucem, this is what I was talking about when I said that I approach music differently from the casual music fan.

Originally Posted by Maajo

Some people think Metal Machine Music is a classic while others think it's just loud, obnoxious, and a joke at the expense of Lou Reed's record label (it was).

[Maajo]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Yo Lucem, this is what I was talking about when I said that I approach music differently from the casual music fan.

The thing is that the consensus has become that it's a classic. If you ever look at any time it's brought up on social media, about 4/5 comments are positive, and I think a lot of the reviews are like that too.

Edit: so most reviews think it's awful. This is actually the only album where one of the reviewers rated it as "woof" that I've ever seen. Pitchfork gave it an 8.7 though. I've seen a lot of support for it though as of late.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Maajo

The thing is that the consensus has become that it's a classic. If you ever look at any time it's brought up on social media, about 4/5 comments are positive, and I think a lot of the reviews are like that too.

I definitely consider MMM a classic, but not because it's widely considered to be such. An album like that in 1975 is just so insanely unheard of and had a massive effect on the avant-garde scene. It might be a troll album, but I don't think that that's the only motivation behind it. Lou Reed always had a disposition toward the experimental, so it's not very unlikely that he used his jadedness as a jumping off point for something that he really wanted to do.

Unless you're talking about Eminem's new album? If so, let me know and I'll explain how hype trains work.