music_collector

This is nothing I learned in school. Heck, we never went that in depth with our own prime ministers! It's very interesting stuff.

I'm guessing Jefferson's vice president Clinton wasn't all that "funky". I couldn't resist!

rubber soul

No, Funkadelic didn't exist in 1801

But George Clinton was considered one of the best politicians of his day. He was always on the short list for Presidential or VP candidates.

And, believe it or not, I'm just scraping the top of the barrel. As I research each President (I've been watching YouTube videos too) I find out more and more.

Stay tuned: James Madison is up tomorrow.

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rubber soul

4.JAMES MADISON ( Hello, Dolley )




Born: March 16, 1751, Port Conway, Virginia
Died: June 28, 1836, Montpelier, Virginia

Term: March 4, 1809- March 4, 1817
Political Party: Democratic- Republican

Vice President(s): George Clinton, Elbridge Gerry

First Lady: Dolley Todd Madison

Before the Presidency: James Madison grew up a sickly child in a well to do family in Virginia. Though younger than the other Founding Fathers, he was still old enough to remember the fear brought on by the French and Indian War. And, much like Jefferson, he had something of a sponge for a brain, wanting to learn as much as he could. He attended the College of New Jersey (later Princeton University) and majored in Greek and Latin. Back home, he entered law in 1772 but found little interest in it. In 1774 he joined a local group called the Committee on Safety. A pro revolution group.

Things moved fast for young James Madison after that. He was appointed as a delegate to the revolutionary Virginia Convention in 1776 and he would strike up a friendship with the older Thomas Jefferson. Madison would end up being Jefferson’s closet adviser over the years as well as his closest personal friend. He also served in the Virginia Council of State during the back end of the war.

Madison became the youngest member of the Continental Congress in 1780 and would become a major player in that body. In 1784, Madison was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates where he battled Patrick Henry over the issue of Separation of Church and State though on the surface, it appeared to be more of a tax issue.

It was Madison who helped to spark the idea of a Constitutional Convention and he would lead the Virginia delegation. Madison supported a strong central Government and was something of an activist in this regard. It was his persuasive skills that would earn him the title, “Father of the Constitution”.

Of course, Madison didn’t write the Constitution, no one person did (Madison certainly contributed of course). But he was one of three people, along with Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, to promote the new Constitution in the form of what would be known as the Federalist Papers. He wrote twenty nine essays, most of them emphasizing the need for a central Republican government. Much of the intent of the Constitution was laid out, in part, because of Madison’s essays in particular.

Once the United States was established, Madison was elected to the House of Representatives in 1789, defeating a future President and ally, James Monroe. Madison was President Washington’s largest supporter in the House, and he was the one who would shepherd through the Bill of Rights in 1791. He later would break with Washington over both foreign and domestic policies, and he opposed Hamilton’s more radical approach to a centralized Government.

Still in the House, Madison would be very critical of President Adams’ policies, in particular, the controversial Alien and Seduction Acts. He then rejoined the Virginia House of Delegates where he campaigned hard for Thomas Jefferson’s bid for President. Once Jefferson was elected, Madison would become his Secretary of State. As Secretary of State, Madison lobbied hard for the Louisiana Purchase, the embargo against the Barbary Pirates, end the practice of impressing American Men into the British and French navies.

And, when it was time for President Jefferson to turn in his spurs, it was Madison who he hand picked to succeed him in the White House.

Summary of offices held:

1781-1783: Virginia Congress of the Confederation

1783-1786: Continental Congress

1786-1787: Constitutional Congress

1787-1789: Virginia House of Delegates

1789-1797: House of Representatives

1799- 1801: Virginia House of Delegates

1801-1809: US Secretary of State



What was going on: The Cumberland Road, New Madrid earthquake, War of 1812

Scandals within the administration: none that we know of

Why he was a good President: Well, basically, he got us through a very costly war, and he managed to do it without overstepping his authority. He didn’t actually declare war on Britain, instead abiding by the Constitution and letting Congress make that decision. And, despite his unpopularity, he managed to shepherd the country with a steady hand, even while he had to run the country away from the White House.

Why he was a bad President: Madison was not what you would call a forceful man. In fact, it goes without saying that he was overshadowed by his legendary charming wife, Dolley. There was also some criticism that he could have handled the War of 1812 better (There’s a reason Ontario is not a US state I guess).

What could have saved his Presidency: Well, maybe if he had conquered Canada . Actually, he may have been better off if he had dealt with the British by more diplomatic means. Also, the war took much of his time away from the domestic issues of the day. No doubt there were events going on that would lead to the panic of 1819 under Monroe’s administration. Also, if he had married someone other than Dolley Todd, who may have been the person who really saved Madison’s tenure.

What could have destroyed his Presidency: Actually, losing the War of 1812 tops the list, obviously. We also came very close to war with France, who hadn’t stopped the practice of harassing Americans into service. A war with both France and Britain (who also happened to be at war with each other- again) would no doubt have been disastrous to the point that James Madison might have been our last President.

Election of 1808: Though popular, President Jefferson would leave his successor with a variety of problems starting with the embargo against England and France which had a devastating effect on the economy. It was at the point where New England was threatening to secede from the Union. So, this would not be a cakewalk for Secretary Madison.

In some ways, 1808 was a copy of 1804 in that the Federalists again nominated the ticket of Charles Pinckney and Rufus King. The Democrat- Republicans, since they couldn’t nominate Jefferson, went with the next best thing in Madison, but they kept the current Vice President, George Clinton, on the ticket. Madison was man of small stature, physically speaking, and the Federalist newspapers exploited that fact. He also had to deal with factions within his own party that he was, in reality, just another clone of Alexander Hamilton (probably not a smart move considering the way Hamilton had died). Even Clinton, though the VP candidate, announced his own candidacy for President. Indeed, it was only through Jefferson’s persuasion that convinced the Republicans to ultimately rally around Madison.

As for the general election. There wasn’t much doubt as to who would win. While not as lopsided as Jefferson’s victory four years before, Madison’s victory was still relatively easy with a 122 to 44 margin.



First term: Once in the White House, the first thing President Madison did was to lift the embargo on Britain, something that may have been a mistake. He also had to deal with a dispute with Spain over the West Florida territory (The US maintained it was part of the Louisiana Purchase). He also would appoint James Monroe as his Secretary of State in 1811.

But, of course, Madison will always be remembered as the President during the war of 1812, which was really a war that lasted for three years. Relations with Britain had soured to the point that each nations battleships began to engage with each other. Relations with Canada were also crumbling as they were being accused of inciting unrest in New England, the one area that was never enamored with Virginia politics.

So, the United States was preparing for war against Britain. There was also some sabre rattling for war with France after they sunk a merchant ship with flour to British troops in Spain (There were still trade agreements apparently). Luckily cooler heads prevailed or we may have become the United States of Europe or something.

In the end, the US would declare war with Britain and even though the British would try and back off, at least initially, and because they didn’t have cell phones in those days, the die was cast. By July 1812, the Americans were fighting in Canada and not with great success. This, not surprisingly would be a factor in the upcoming election.

Election of 1812: With the war in Britain not exactly going to plan (there was talk that it was a ploy to expand the territory of the US even more), it was to no surprise hat it would take a toll on the Madison re-election campaign. The war caused a rift with the Republicans yet again with a third of the delegation boycotting the convention altogether. The remaining delegates again went with Madison, with Elbridge Gerry as his running mate (Vice President Clinton had died in April).

The Federalists, desperate for one of their own in the White House, negotiated with disgruntled Republicans and decided on another Democrat- Republican, Dewitt Clinton, nephew of the late Vice President, as their nominee with Federalist Jared Ingersoll as their running mate.

They may have won too, had the Populist tactics not been exposed. They had different messages depending on the region they were in, something that would compel one John Quincy Adams to break from the party. The tactics probably not only lost them the election to the not very popular Madison, but probably was the death knell to the Federalist Party.

In the end, it was a relatively close election, but Madison ultimately won out with slightly more than half the popular vote. The electoral vote was fairly close too. Still, it signaled the end of what would be the Federalist Party.

Second Term: Basically, the second term was dominated by the war of 1812. By now, the British had brought the war to the United States, but they suffered basically the same results that the Americans had in Canada. They were famously repelled in the battles of Baltimore and New Orleans, both of which became legendary in American lore. In Baltimore’s case, it inspired one Francis Scott Key to write a patriotic poem that would one day become the American National Anthem. The Battle of New Orleans created a national hero in the form of Andrew Jackson, certainly one of the most divisive Presidents in American history to be sure. Another future President, William Henry Harrison, also became a significant figure during the war.

Of course, I can’t talk about the War of 1812 without mentioning the sacking of Washington in 1814 (just before the battle of Baltimore turned the tide against the British). President Madison and Dolley had to flee the White House before the British burned it to the ground but not before Dolley had the staff take as many artifacts with them as possible. The British may have burned the White House, but they couldn’t take the historical treasures with them. More importantly, they couldn’t take away the American spirit.

In the end, the British and Americans agreed to end the war in a stalemate. Now some patriots will swear the Americans won the war, and in one way, they did, in the sense that Britain was unable to get their colonies back (they had unrealistic goals too it seems). Others will say the Americans lost the war much like they lost Vietnam. Not really true, either. No, the Americans gained nothing from this folly but they didn’t lose anything either, well, maybe a bunch of lives, but strategically speaking, well, you get the point.

So, it was a stalemate and the world lived on.

There wasn’t much to report in the waning years of the Madison administration except that he would recharter a National Bank in Philadelphia, something one of our friendly war heroes will destroy a couple decades later.



Post Presidency: Madison retired to his plantation at Montpelier. He would serve on the board at the University of Virginia and would take over as rector upon Thomas Jefferson’s death in 1826. And, though, like Jefferson, he never relinquished his slaves, he nonetheless joined up with the American Colonization Society which called for the gradual abolition of slavery.

By the mid-1830s and in his eighties, Madison’s health took a turn for the worse and he passed away quietly on June 28, 1836. He left well loved though as more than 100 people, including some of his slaves, attended his funeral

Odd notes: At 5”4, Madison is the shortest of all the Presidents in American history

It is said the his First Lady, Dolley Madison, was in fact more popular than he was.

Along with Thomas Jefferson, Madison was once arrested (carriage riding was once illegal on Sundays)

Final Summary: It’s safe to say that Madison had a very complicated eight years dominated by the problems with France and especially Britain. One shouldn’t forget there were also some strained relations with Spain over Florida, which would eventually be ceded to the US. It was really a pigheaded move to wage war with Britain and Madison is lucky he didn’t end up the Dubya of his era. On the plus side, he was a stickler to the Constitution, even if it went against his own interest. After all, he helped to create it after all. I said something in the six pack thread that good people don’t always make good Presidents. Madison, no doubt, was a well-meaning person and it is because of him that we have the rights that we do have under the Constitution.

But I think the War of 1812 definitely taints his Presidency quite a bit. Though certainly not as arrogant as Adams, who dealt with considerably less comparatively, I have to question whether he should have waged war with Britain to begin with. There was a mood of expansionism in the United States (all through the nineteenth century actually) and I think Madison may have fell under that spell himself, especially in regard to Florida.

At least they named a cupcake company after his wife

Overall rating: C+

https://millercenter.org/president/madison

https://kids.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/james-madison#:~:text=Fun%20Facts&text=The%20smallest%20 president%2C%20Madison%20was,weighed%20only%20a%20 hundred%20pounds.&text=While%20enjoying%20a%20Sund ay%20drive,riding%20was%20illegal%20on%20Sundays.& text=Madison%20wrote%20George%20Washington's%20fir st%20speech%20as%20president%20of%20the%20United%2 0States.

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music_collector

Yeah, we're sorry about that whole thing?

In some parts of the country, that's a historical event that gets forgotten. With the town I grew up in being so close to the border (we have our own bridge to NY state), we learned a lot about that event, as well as the loyalists.

rubber soul

5.JAMES MONROE (I Feel Good)




Born: April 28, 1858, Westmoreland County, Virginia
Died: July 4, 1831, New York, New York

Term: March 4, 1817- March 4, 1825
Political Party: Democratic- Republican

Vice President: Daniel Tompkins

First Lady: Elizabeth Kortright Monroe

Before the Presidency: Monroe, like the Virginia Presidents before him, grew up in fairly affluent means. His parents died when he was in his teens and he was taken in as a ward to his Uncle, who would be quite an influence on the young Monroe.

Monroe attended the College of William and Mary in 1774 and it was there where he got into some mischief with fellow students in support of the Revolutionary War. They robbed the Governor’s Palace and gave the arms to the Virginia Militia; thus Monroe had a front row ticket to the war against Britain.

As such, he served as an officer with distinction in the Continental Army until 1779, after which he joined the Virginia Militia as a Colonel. It was there where he connected with major leaders like then Governor Thomas Jefferson, who commissioned Monroe as a spy.

His political career started right after the war, using Thomas Jefferson as his mentor. He was elected to the Virginia Assembly in 1782 and joined the Continental Congress a year later. He wanted to expand powers to the Congress as well as organizing governments in the Western territories.

He was certainly somewhat of an independent character voting against ratification of the Constitution, his biggest beef being that Senators should be elected directly and not appointed (he would finally get his wish with the 17th Amendment in 1913). He also wanted a strong bill of rights, something that Jefferson supported, and Madison made true in 1791. He ran for the House of Representatives against James Madison in 1789 and lost, though they would remain amicable throughout. As it was, Monroe would be appointed to the Senate in 1790 and he, Madison, and Jefferson would form something of a friendly alliance.

President Washington was also aware of the young Monroe and he appointed him as minister to France in 1794. It was an eventful two years as Monroe was able to procure the release of Thomas Paine, who had the audacity to speak out against King Louis XIV. Alas, the French Revolution happened right after, and Washington had to recall Monroe.

Monroe returned to Virginia to practice law and was elected Governor of Virginia in 1799. He worked for the election of Jefferson and was an advocate for public education (Gee, I like him already). In 1803, President Jefferson sent Monroe to France as an envoy for the Louisiana Purchase. That same year, he was appointed as Minister to Great Britain, with a stint as an envoy to Spain in between. In 1806, Monroe signed an agreement with Britain resolving some outstanding issues, but didn’t address the issue of impressment, something both President Jefferson and Secretary Madison insisted on. Monroe had seen it as a first step, while the other two (probably correctly) simply didn’t trust the British. It was a temporary setback for Monroe, but it didn’t alter the friendship between the three powerhouses.

In 1808, there was a draft within the Democratic- Republican party for Monroe to run against Madison, who Jefferson favored to succeed him. He accepted the draft but never really wanted to battle against his friend, noting they differed only on some foreign policy.

So, he was out politics briefly until 1811 when he again became Governor of Virginia. That lasted a whole three months as President Madison enlisted him to become Secretary of State.

And it as a tense time to be Secretary of State to be sure as this was the period of the War of 1812. It was a controversial war to be sure and Madison’s Secretary of War quit as a result. Monroe would fill in on a temporary basis on two occasions during his stint as Secretary of State and he is credited with the comeback of sorts by the military towards the second half of the war. Monroe was also something of a hero as he oversaw the evacuation of Washington as the British burned the city down. Monroe returned to the city after the British had left and Madison put him in charge of its defenses.

So, while Madison’s popularity continued to sink like a bowling ball, Monroe’s popularity rose, putting him in good position for the 1816 nomination.

Summary of offices held:

1783-1786: Congress of the American Federation

1790-1794: US Senator

1794-1796: Minister to France

1799-1802: Governor of Virginia

1803-1807: Minister to the United Kingdom

1811: Governor of Virginia

1811-1817: Secretary of State

1814-1815: Interim Secretary of War



What was going on: The Seminole War, Panic of 1819, Missouri Compromise, Annexation of Florida, the Monroe Doctrine,

Scandals within the administration: The Corrupt bargain (though that was more of a legislative scandal)

Why he was a good President: Though it has been abused at time, particularly in the Twentieth Century but especially during the Spanish- American War, his Monroe Doctrine has stood the test of time. Latin American nations saw the doctrine as a way of ensuring their own independence, and, when properly enforced, that’s exactly what it did, as Monroe intended. Other times, well…

Why he was a bad President: He probably should have taken a more active role after the Panic of 1819. No, I don’t mean he should have created a New Deal of sorts (for one thing, something like that wouldn’t have played in Monroe’s time), but he could have done more to alleviate the pressures the banks were going through at the time. Also, as mentioned, the Doctrine, though full of good intentions, opened the door for quite a few abuses by future Presidents starting, possibly, with Jackson, and definitely with James Polk and his Mexican- American war.

What could have saved his Presidency: A steadier hand during the Panic of 1819 would have been nice. Also, he should have pulled a Truman ala General MacArthur and fired Andrew Jackson’s ass.

What could have destroyed his Presidency: For starters, had the fallout from the Seminole War have not been so seamless. Monroe was known for his great diplomatic skills and it no doubt saved him from another war. Also had the panic of 1819 exploded into something as devastating as the Great Depression a century later. Monroe didn’t do much about the Panic but he probably did do more than, say, Herbert Hoover.

Election of 1816: Monroe was well positioned for the Democratic- Republican nomination but there was some hesitancy within the party of yet another Virginian in the White House. Some of them threw their support behind William Crawford of Georgia, another member of Madison’s cabinet. He enjoyed a lot of congressional support, but he lacked the national constituency that Monroe enjoyed. In the end, Monroe won the nomination by a relatively close margin.

By now, the Federalists were more or less on life support, and they settled for the always dependable Rufus King with John Howard as his running mate. As such, it wasn’t much of an election as Monroe and running mate Daniel Tompkins all but ran away with the electoral vote, King only winning three of the nineteen states.

First term: President Monroe began his term with a tour of New England, the one area where maybe he wasn’t so popular. He emphasized unity and it was later considered the ushering in of the era of good feelings. Things were relatively quiet until late 1817 when there was a Seminole uprising in Florida. Good ol’ Andrew Jackson, man of great restraint that he was, went against the President’s wishes and drove the Seminoles into Spanish Florida and capturing the Capital, causing an international incident in the process. In the end , Jackson was reprimanded, and Pensacola was returned to Spain. One thing did come out of this however, as Spain would peacefully cede Florida to the United States in 1819.

Monroe also had to deal with the nation’s first real financial crisis, known as the Panic of 1819. Thanks to conservative polices of the Second Bank of the United States, the financial strife lasted for four years.

It was also during this term that slavery would become a pressing issue with a debate over the admission of Missouri. Missouri, geographically speaking, straddled the line between the pro-slavery south and the abolitionist north, sort of like Maryland, Delaware (slave states), and Kentucky (a free state). In the end, the Missouri Compromise would be passed which made Missouri a slave state (Maine was also admitted as a free state) and the status of future states would be decided by the 36 degree, 30 line.

Election of 1820: I think it’s safe to say President Monroe had an easy time with it when it came to re-election time. He remained popular within the ranks of his party and was a shoo in for re-nomination as was his running mate, Daniel Tompkins. Having said that, the nomination never officially happened but Monroe and Tompkins would represent the party on the ticket anyway.

Meanwhile, the Federalists, all but dead, didn’t even bother to nominate a candidate, thus Monroe ran unopposed, the last time that would ever happen in American History. Even so, he couldn’t garner a unanimous electoral vote, even with John Adams coming out of retirement to vote for Monroe. One elector from New Hampshire cast his vote for Adams’ son, John Quincy Adams.

Second Term: The big issue as Monroe’s second term started was the depression that resulted from the Panic of 1819. As it was, President Monroe basically followed the Jeffersonian laissez- faire approach and the market, fortunately, took care of itself. It didn’t prevent future financial panics however as a more notorious panic lay just a decade and a half away.

President Monroe fared better on the foreign policy front. With most of the Spanish colonies on the verge of Independence, President Monroe wanted to ensure that European nations wouldn’t try and form new colonies in the Americas, thus what would become known as the Monroe Doctrine was passed in 1823. It promised that any intervention by a European nation on a Sovereign nation in the Western Hemisphere would be considered as an attack on the United States. It also pledged that the US would not interfere with any colonies still controlled by a European Nation. It is a doctrine that has been used, for good and bad, by a number of Presidents, most recently by Ronald Reagan.

There was speculation that Monroe might run for a third term, but he decided against it, noting that the competition would be much more fierce. By this time the shadow that would be Andrew Jackson was coming to the forefront as was the volatile John Calhoun.

Post Presidency: Monroe would not be able to enjoy the long period of retirement that his three predecessors enjoyed. Indeed, he would die five years before his friend and predecessor, James Madison.

Still, he was able to serve on the Board of Visitors at the University of Virginia and, in 1829, served with the Virginia Constitutional Convention.

In 1830, upon the death of his wife, he moved to New York City to live with his daughter and son-in law. It was there where he took ill for good and he would become the third President to die on the Fouth of July, just five years after Jefferson and Adams.

Odd notes: Monroe once defended himself with fire tongs during a disagreement with the Treasury Secretary

Monroe has a World Capital named after him, Monrovia, Liberia.

Final Summary: You can argue that Monroe was the luckiest of all the Presidents. Though he did have to deal with a financial crisis, he didn’t have to endure any major wars save for Andrew Jackson’s little misadventure. His era of good feelings tours made quite an impact on the general populace and, with the possible exception of the Missouri issue, didn’t seem to have to deal with a hostile congress.

And maybe it was because Monroe was so good at the art of compromise, maybe a little too good. The liberal in me wants to dock him points on not taking a tougher stand against slavery, but then again, he owned something like 200 slaves himself, and, let’s face it, he was a product of the times. And he’ll always be remembered for the Monroe Doctrine (his idea but actually written by John Quincy Adams), which at least gave the Latin American cover from other nations, save the United States themselves. So, yes, he was a fairly effective President, and he had a great vision when it came to Foreign affairs.

Domestically though, uh, not so much.


Overall rating: B-

https://kids.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/james-monroe

https://millercenter.org/president/monroe

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music_collector

Question

Was the two term limit in place from the start, or was it introduced later?

rubber soul

It was an unwritten rule basically that you didn't run for a third term (the Washington precedent). A couple did consider it but only Franklin Roosevelt did it, then got elected for a fourth. After that, the Republicans got an amendment passed that from then on limited the President to two terms. Sort of backfired on them forty years later when they wanted Reagan to run for a third term though and Orrin Hatch suggested repealing the amendment. Needless to say, the Democrats laughed him out of the Senate chamber.

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music_collector

Thanks.

I'm not sure Reagan would have physically survived more terms. I'd like to think he went through enough, getting shot and all.

The Batlord

Follow John Hinckley Jr. on Twitter!

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FETCHER.

A really interesting journal RS, I will look forward to reading this

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My Journal.
Last.Fm if your interested...