Batty & TH Watch a Bunch of ****ing Batman: The Animated Series
 

The Batlord: Welcome comic book fans and subhumans, to The Batlord and Trollheart's journal dedicated to Batman: The Animated Series (retitled The Adventures of Batman & Robin for its second season, and later relaunched for a final season as The New Batman Adventures) -- for those ignorant clods out there, B:TAS was an American children's cartoon which originally aired from September 5, 1992 to September 15, 1995. Here we shall shamelessly thieve the format from Unknown Soldier and Anteater's Toto journal in the form of Skype discussions about specific episodes from the series.

Depending on how this goes, we may end up expanding this journal to encompass other in-continuity DCAU shows, such as Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Justice League/Justice League International, and possibly some of the animated movies -- assuming I can badger Trollheart into watching them (which I will try my ****ing hardest to do). For the foreseeable future, however, B:TAS will be our focus.

If you love Batman, comics, and long-winded, back-and-forth, Siskel and Ebert-style discussions, then this is the journal you've been waiting for. Not that there should be any question that you would, of course.


Trollheart: Hey! Who turned out the lights? Someone let me out of here or by God there'll be hell to pay! I'm telling you: I know lawyers! You think somebody with an association with Mister Burns doesn't know lawy – ah. That's better. Light. Hey it's you Batty! What the hell is this? What's with the bag over the head? Whatever happened to emails and PMs? Whaddya mean, look at this cartoon? I've more important things to do that look at --- hmm. Batman eh? The Animated Series you say? Well ok, if it'll shut you --- hey you know, this ain't bad. This ain't bad at all! Are there more of these? Over a hundred you say? Maybe I'll just stay here and help you review them. But not because you've kidnapped my cats. Oh no. This is purely my own decision. Just don't hurt them. Okay, let's do this thing then!

And, you know, if any of you people reading should happen to feel a need to call the cops and report a kidnapping, well I guess I can't stop you. What Batty? No, no, nothing, just telling everyone how great it is to be here. So, what's first up?


The Batlord: My dick, but that's beside the point.

So let's kick this **** off!

"Robin's Reckoning, Part 1" is the first of a two part series, where after years of searching, Batman finally discovers the whereabouts Tony Zucco, the man who murdered Robin's parents. This creates tension with his protege as he tries to keep Robin out of the investigation.

Intercut are flashbacks of the death of Dick Grayson's parents, and his early days as Bruce's new ward.

————————————————

The Batlord: I guess we can officially call this meeting to order. So, before we go into the actual episode, I have to ask your opinion of the episode in general: love, hate, meh? 6:49 pm


Trollheart: At first I thought it was a bit kiddish, which I guess is fair enough, but then it took off and yeah by the end I was pretty impressed. A love I'd say. 6:55 pm


The Batlord: Fantastic. If you'd said otherwise I'd have harmed you. 6:55 pm


Trollheart: I was a little disappointed nobody actually died, but as you say, it's a kids programme so I suppose you can't have that. I'm more used to your Arkham Asylum/Killing Joke/Dark Knight Batman though. 6:57 pm


The Batlord: Well it is a kid's show. It aired weekdays right after children would have gotten out of school. It's especially impressive since there was a new episode every single day. The first season, which would have aired in a nine month period give or take, was around sixty episodes. That's pretty insane.

The quality of some of the episodes could be spotty because of that, but the depth of the drama for much of the series was pretty amazing considering the intense schedule they must have been under. 6:59 pm


Trollheart: That is, yes. It's so odd how these things are often aimed at children but are clearly darker and meant really for adults. I thought there were some very clever touches in the episode. Liked the part where his mother called Robin "a real boy wonder"...

Zucco's weird though isn't he? Seems to have started out all tough and manly and now he's like he’s regressed to a punk kid or something. 7:00 pm


The Batlord: Another thing that's impressive is the sheer quality of the animation and art design. There really was no cartoon in history with that level of effort and production quality. 7:01 pm


Trollheart: The animation can only be described as very Batman certainly. I doubt you'd see that in anything else. Even the Spider-Man cartoons were bright and cheerful, and had probably too much humour in them. 7:02 pm


The Batlord: I think Zucco's grubbiness is one of the strengths of Robin's story. It wasn't big, epic, comic book craziness. It was a street level story about some two-bit hoodlum who killed two people, just like any number of mafia hits. And yet the repercussions were massive. Just like the murder of Batman's own parents.

So, let's start with the actual tone and animation of the show, since this is the first installment of the journal. 7:04 pm


Trollheart: I thought the guys on the building site at the beginning overdid it though. A bomb? Loosening the bolts would have been enough. A bomb made it seem like foul play was going to be suspected rather than an accident.

Tone: dark of course, very gritty and exactly as you would expect GC to look.

Animation I found very smooth, not jerky or forced. 7:05 pm


The Batlord: And just how you said the show looked very dark. Every cartoon that I'm aware of up till that point had been drawn on white paper, whereas B:TAS was done on black paper, which really made everything look noirish and moody. It's a very unique style. 7:07 pm


Trollheart: Yes it really looked like it came out of the pages of a Frank Miller or Alan Moore graphic novel. 7:07 pm


The Batlord: It was inspired by the first Batman movie, which was itself very influenced by those same graphic novels. 7:08 pm


Trollheart: Yeah, that was prob my favourite of the franchise up to Dark Knight. Some of the others were pretty terrible, almost going back to the sixties camp of the series. 7:09 pm


The Batlord: Another thing that was very unique about the animated series was the design of Gotham. Notice how everything was very stylized. It's an art style that coined its own term: dark deco. Very noirish, which was further enhanced by the modern day-meets-fifties design of the city, cars, etc. The design was incredibly detailed and deliberate. 7:11 pm


Trollheart: Yeah, it all stood out: sharp angles, big heavy shadows thrown across the street, rain lashing down; sort of a Blade Runner meets Batman in a way. Gave the impression of one man trying to hold back the tide of darkness. 7:12 pm


The Batlord: Another thing that really added to the mood of the series was its music. Everything was scored by an actually symphony I believe. It didn't recycle old classical music. Everything was recorded specifically for that show. 7:13 pm


Trollheart: Danny Elfman again. It gave it a very dark, serious feeling. Kind of tended to forget it was supposed to be a cartoon. 7:14 pm


The Batlord: That's the brilliance of B:TAS. You don't have to watch it as a cartoon. And nice factoid about Danny Elfman. I actually didn't know that. 7:15 pm


Trollheart: Oh. It comes up in the credits. I assumed you knew. 7:16 pm


The Batlord: I'm lazy about watching credits. 7:16 pm


Trollheart: There are a few cringy moments though. That fucking elephant. 7:17 pm


The Batlord: It is a kid's cartoon. Sometimes you do have to make allowances for that, but far less than any other kids' show I can think of. 7:18 pm


Trollheart: I also thought when one of the bad guys said "We need a charge" Robin was gonna say "How about sabotage?"

Yeah I understand that. Small price to pay I guess.

I also thought it was sloppy of Batman to leave all his files in Robin's reach on the computer. Couldn't he have encoded them or something? 7:18 pm


The Batlord: When he swung down and kicked the guy? I'd have liked a better line, but I liked more the implication that Robin was so aware of his surroundings that he could kick a guy off a building and know that he was going to land on something safe. It really brought home that Robin was someone who Batman should have trusted, which conflicted with how Batman treated him after he found out about Zucco. 7:19 pm


Trollheart: There was some great coordination all right. What was that thing the hood shot at him? It was like a fucking gatling gun or something! 7:20 pm


The Batlord: A rivet gun I believe. 7:21 pm


Trollheart: Oh I see. As for Robin, I'm assuming Batman thought Robin would be too emotionally invested and might make a mistake, leave himself open? 7:21 pm


The Batlord: Well, we'll have to wait till the next episode to find out exactly what was going through Batman's head. :pimp: 7:22 pm


Trollheart: Yep. Who's this guy sheltering Zucco, and what relationship has Batman with him? He seems to know him quite well. 7:23 pm


The Batlord: Zucco's uncle, who is a crime boss of some sort. I don't remember him being in any other episodes, but Batman being Batman, he's likely on a first name basis with every mafia boss. 7:24 pm


Trollheart: I just thought it was odd. Looked like they had something going, like maybe he was passing info to Batman or something. Assumed it was part of the arc. 7:24 pm


The Batlord: On to the meat. The thing which really sets this episode so high for me is that it really explores the complex relationship between all of the Bat-family. You have the clearly loving father-son relationship between Batman and Robin, but also a tension due to Bruce's controlling nature. Due to Batman's history with loss, rather than be open with his loved ones to keep them close, he attempts to control them, which actually pushes them away -- which is also in itself a defense mechanism for Batman to distance himself from the potential pain of emotional intimacy. 7:26 pm


Trollheart: And of course this brings back memories of the murder of his own parents. Not forgetting Alfred of course, the doting uncle/grandfather. 7:27 pm


The Batlord: Of course. This was mirrored in the flashback when Batman almost seemed to be actively avoiding Dick, even while trying to "solve" Dick's problem in much the same way he wished he could with the man who murdered his own parents. And then Alfred steps in as the family patriarch to set him straight. 7:29 pm


Trollheart: With just a few dry but well-chosen words he can cut Batman right down to size. 7:29 pm


The Batlord: Alfred is god. If Batman is the ultimate superhero, then Alfred is the ultimate supporting character. Bruce could never hope for a better surrogate father. 7:30 pm


Trollheart: And of course like all parents Batman thinks he is right, and doing the right thing, even if it potentially hurts his "child".

I don't think any other character in any series has a father figure like him, do they? Alfred, I mean. 7:30 pm


The Batlord: Indeed. But one thing I love about Batman's dynamic with the people he makes his surrogate family with, is that even if he can't, or won't be what they need, in the end, he will always try as best he can. What did you think about that last flashback scene, with Bruce opening up to Dick about his own parents' murder? 7:32 pm


Trollheart: I liked the way it got a little ambiguous, as at one point you weren't sure if he was talking for Robin or for his own pain. Kind of have to watch it back to be sure.

You can tell it hurts that he "let" the same thing happen to Robin even though he could not have known about it or done anything about it. 7:32 pm


The Batlord: It's definitely ambiguous. When you think about how much love a man has in his heart for his parents, that when they are murdered in front of him, that it affects him so deeply that he becomes what Batman became, all while never allowing himself to succumb to bitterness. A man like that is too open a wound to ever forget his parents for even a moment. It's why he and Dick will be family no matter what comes between them, since they have so much in common. 7:35 pm


Trollheart: I have to admit, I always hated Robin and thought he was just a device to draw in the younger kids --- hey look kids! You can be just like Batman! --- but I'm beginning to warm to him now. Just a little, mind. He's still a prick

I've always hated teenage sidekicks --- Fallout Boy.....


The Batlord: Honestly, whenever I watch that scene, I always tear up. It's just so tragic, while also being so hopeful at the same time. It's one of the more beautiful moments I've seen on television, kids' cartoon or otherwise. 7:38 pm


Trollheart: I wouldn't go that far, and I'm an emotional guy.

I guess I just don't like Robin.

At the moment anyway. 7:38 pm


The Batlord: I think it's made all the more heartbreaking when it cuts to Robin being so angry about Batman cutting him out of the investigation. It's such a good metaphor for parents in general. When children grow up, all that love can become bitterness when they start questioning the motives of their parents. 7:40 pm

Trollheart: I suppose it depends on how it resolves. If Batman brings Zucco to justice (or kills him) will Robin feel vindicated or cheated?

And is this then the point where Batman is forced to admit that Robin is a man, not a kid, and should be allowed make his own decisions? 7:41 pm


The Batlord: All in good time, padawan. I think the resolution in the second episode will surprise you. I'm not giving anything away till then. 7:42 pm


Trollheart: It will be interesting.

If it turns out to be something stupid, like he's related to Zucco... 7:43 pm


The Batlord: I think we've covered what needs to be covered, unless you can think of anything else? If not, then we can adjourn. Batman out. 7:45 pm

And thus the concept of collaborative journalizing takes off into the stratosphere...!

Fun stuff gents: I'm going to have to watch along with your popcorn talk to fully appreciate the banter happening methinks. :laughing:

I don't have Netflix or anything, but this is the site I'm using to watch the episodes. Or at least it was until I downloaded all 109 of them. :drummer:

Batman: The Animated Series online | Cartoons Online | Animeflavor.com

Next up will be episode 33, "Robin's Reckoning, Part 2", if you wanna get a jump on it. For those with "official" services, the episode numbers might be different than the one I'm using, since there was often a difference in when the episodes were produced and when they were aired. There was already confusion with me and TH about this (I'm using the production schedule, whereas he had the air schedule).

Also, if anyone hops on that Plex TV thing Goofle was talking about a while back, they have every episode. Pretty sweet. And it's not region-disabled or anything.

Are you like reviewing every story or just the key ones as episodes 32/33 are strange ones to start with or were these the first in the production order?

I saw these when they first came out, then bought the first two series several years ago really cheap for like £10, I'll have to see if I can find them.

Btw leaving the time at the end of each sentence makes it look like a minutes meeting.

I pitched this idea for my journal in a PM to Trollheart. But no worries, hope this journal goes well.

Batty is picking out the episodes he thinks are best concentrated on. Were it up to me, I'd do my usual episode-by-episode thing and we'd be here till 2020!

Also, yeah those timestamps, but who wants to go deleting them off every line? That's how Skype does it, I think we probably have to leave them on.
You did, and I said I'd do it, but I'm not that into your kind of music, which is why a collaborative thing would probably not work, unless you wanted a Devil's Advocate sort of thing. I'd still be up for it, but you'd probably hate what I had to say about your music. At least I have a very basic grounding in Batman, know some comics and have in fact worked with Batty before.

There are 109 episodes of Batman: The Animated Series. I see no reason to do it episode-by-episode, especially when a lot of the earlier ones weren't all that great. Like I said, they aired the first sixty episodes in about a nine month period, so there were more than a few duds early on.

And "Robin's Reckoning" is a great place to start. Apart from being some of the two absolute best episodes, they explore Batman's character better than almost any other episode, not to mention showing Robin to be more than just some lame sidekick.

This is great stuff guys. Will be following.

Also glad you're liking Plex TH. Had a few issues a month or so back, but better than ever now.

"Robin's Reckoning, Part II" is the end of this two-parter (duh), where in both flashbacks and the present we see Batman and Robin close in on Tony Zucco, the man who murdered Dick Grayson's parents. The tension between the partners continues to escalate, while in the past we see their relationship begin.


————————————————


The Batlord: So, like I asked you last time: love, hate, meh?


Trollheart: This time, kind of meh.

I was disappointed with the resolution.


The Batlord: You're a whore.


Trollheart: That's entirely beside the point.

Was expecting more, but then I keep remembering its a kids show.


The Batlord: The only thing wrong to me was that Robin's voice actor wasn't quite up to that last scene.


Trollheart: No, there was a lot wrong for me. I mean, Zucco was ridiculous.

Batman got shot?

Robin didn't kill Zucco?

And who was that woman he saved?


The Batlord: Yes, Batman got shot. Of course Batman's protege isn't going to kill someone. And the woman was a hooker Bettie Page lookalike.


Trollheart: It was good that you see Batman is vulnerable, but is he really that careless to get shot while crawling on a roof?

I felt it was like "Best of both worlds part 2", very watered down after all the excitement and anticipation, and not much of a payoff in the end.


The Batlord: It's because of what he did to Zucco. In the first episode Zucco was young and cocky, but after a decade of being scared of Batman, now he was strung out, paranoid, and on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Any other criminal probably would have ignored a bit of creaking on the roof.


Trollheart: Also, shouldn't Batman be dead? He emptied the magazine into that roof!


The Batlord: Randomly spraying bullets is not a good way to hit things.

It's why soldiers fire in bursts and not full automatic.


Trollheart: Or miss things. A guy with a machine gun is more likely to hit something blind than a guy with a revolver or rifle.


The Batlord: M16s fire in three round bursts for exactly that reason. Spraying bullets you're more likely to hit nothing than if you actually take time to aim.


Trollheart: Well you're a military man [The Batlord's note: I don't know where the **** he got that from.] so I'll bow to your experience. But I just thought there would be more to the story. Batman goes looking for Zuccoo. So does Robin. They find him. They capture him. The end. Meh.

The idea of Batman leaning on a crutch was both hilarious and disturbing.

I know he's not Superman but still...


The Batlord: The ending wasn't the point, though I think Batman's last line gave the dynamic of the episode a twist. Underneath all the cold logic, Batman wasn't worried that Robin would let his emotions get the best of him, he was just an irrationally scared parent.


Trollheart: Yeah that bit was good all right.


The Batlord: To me the episode was a great exploration of Batman as a human being vs. a terrifying vigilante. When he's with Dick as a boy he's a loving father, and yet when the mask is on he's so terrifying that he can drive a criminal almost insane.


Trollheart: Remember, I'm still getting used to this being a kids show. I'm used to a darker Batman than this one.

The family dynamic is interesting isn't it? Batman's father was killed so Alfred is his surrogate, and Dick's father the same so Batman steps into the role. I wonder if in later years Robin takes on a sidekick and the same thing happens?


The Batlord: One great moment that gave that dark feeling was when Dick as a kid was on the streets searching for Zucco, and then you just hear the Batplane's engine. Everybody runs off the street, the lights in the apartments go out, and then you just see this search light. So Big Brother.

You'll have to watch Batman Beyond to see what all happens in this continuity with Bruce.


Trollheart: And what's Batman: The Brave and the Bold?

That's showing over here.


The Batlord: A more light-hearted show that has nothing to do with the B:TAS continuity. It's very humor based, but also shows A LOT of the rest of the DC universe. I highly reccomend it, though you'll have to get used to the campy tone.


Trollheart: Ah. Doesn't sound like it would be up my street.

Batman saving Robin in the flashback was pretty good.


The Batlord: But yeah, the family dynamic is great, and the parallels between the present and the flashbacks really drive that home.


Trollheart: Great moment when he revealed who he was.

I would wonder though how a two-bit hood like Zucco evaded Batman, with all his resources, for so long.


The Batlord: Speaking of that scene (Batman saving Dick as a kid), I've watched that episode more times than I can count, and I never noticed that Batman's costume was different. Usually it's blue and grey, but then it was black and grey, with the yellow oval around the bat symbol gone. I'm pretty sure it was the Year One costume.


Trollheart: Nerd!!!


The Batlord: Fuck yeah.


Trollheart: And proud.


The Batlord: I'd wonder how Batman of all people couldn't find Zucco, but since everyone Zucco knew had cut off ties to him, then that would severely limit the possible leads Batman would have. You could say that his own zealousness actually worked against him.


Trollheart: And yet he knew the guy who was sheltering him.


The Batlord: He was Zucco's uncle, so of course he would know that they had ties.


Trollheart: So why not just stake his place out and wait?


The Batlord: Because the uncle disowned him. Like Detective Gordon said, everyone Zucco knew was staying away, so Zucco had to go off the grid all by himself. Harder to catch someone doing that I imagine.


Trollheart: I guess. I really thought Zucco would fall though, through the bars of the rail and maybe Robin might reach a hand out, unable to grab him, bringing back the memory of reaching for the trapeze.

Poetic justice.


The Batlord: Like you said, it is a kid's show. Otherwise I imagine Robin would have just beat the shit out of him rather than throwing him into barrels. Apparently the station the show was on was very strict about what the show could and could not do. Later on, the show was on a different station which allowed them to get away with more. But even with the restrictions, they still managed to get away with showing a pimp about to beat up a hooker.

They managed to get away with a lot of things with sneaky writing.


Trollheart: That's true. Can you spell "Hooker" kids? :)


The Batlord: Before this show I don't know that a kid's cartoon had ever actually used guns like that. At least not to the point where a psychopathic gangster is pointing a tommy gun in a guy's face, about to blow him away. Remember, this was the early nineties. Probably a lot of the things that might be commonplace now were not back then.

Back then Voltron and ThunderCats were probably as visceral as cartoons got.


Trollheart: And Roadrunner.

I imagine there were some tense meetings with network execs!


The Batlord: Oh I'm sure. There's a Poison Ivy episode we'll end up doing later on that I don't know how they managed to sneak past them. Some of the Joker stuff was probably edgier than they were comfortable with as well, but we'll get to that next time.


Trollheart: Episode could have used more Alfred too.


The Batlord: One thing I've noticed with watching a lot of these episodes again, is that Batman is not made out to be an invincible ninja. Many times you'll see him having legitimate trouble with surprisingly small numbers of thugs. It reminds me again of Year One, where you see Batman injured and having to deal with a SWAT team of corrupt cops. But that actually grounds the action, and I'll bet that the writers were thinking of that particular scene when they did this episode.


Trollheart: I haven't read that

It is good that he's not a Superman though. I mean, how did anyone watch that? The guy's virtually invincible.


The Batlord: Do so. It's one of the most highly regarded Batman graphic novels of all time. Also done by Frank Miller.


Trollheart: I'll put it on my list.


The Batlord: It's often only second on Best Of lists to The Dark Knight Returns.


Trollheart: That's high praise then.

That was an amazing book.

I think that was the first time I actually realized Batman was not meant to be campy and silly.


The Batlord: I actually haven't read that one. I've seen the animated movie (awesome), but have been sleeping on it. Should have read the book first.


Trollheart: That, Arkham Asylum and The Killing Joke. Excellent.


The Batlord: Dude, they're making an animated movie of The Killing Joke... nothing says we can't talk about some of the comics too, you know. One day...


Trollheart: Hey, I know this has only begun but what would you think of tying it into a Batman movie review thing between us?

Or do it separate.


The Batlord: I'm down with anything Batman.


Trollheart: Cool. I have to get up to speed with the later movies.

Last one I saw through was Batman Begins. :(


The Batlord: But I imagine we have to cut this short soon, so is there anything else you'd like to go over?


Trollheart: I don't think so. I think we've covered what was there.


The Batlord: Alright then, as always, to our adoring fans, Batman out.


Trollheart: Yeah. Both of them...

I'd just like to say that, no matter how dubious Robin's origins as a way to draw in younger readers, or the lame way in which he was often depicted in the past, the Robins (all four of them) are totally underrated. Do you what Robin is? He's a protege of the most fully-realized human warrior of all time, subjected to training that would make a Navy SEAL cry like a little bitch. Robin/Nightwing is a special forces ninja second only to Batman himself. **** Robin haters.

Oh, and I guess we should start announcing the next episode we're doing. Because we simply have to do a Joker episode ASAP, next up is...


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20081213113219

I've never had any real respect for sidekicks. If they're so great why don't they strike out on their own? It's like being the squire to a knight, who wants to be that? Still, I'll reserve judgement and see if you can change my mind....

The first three Robins did strike out on their own. The fourth one is still about ten years old, so give him a break.


First Robin: Dick Grayson (aka Nightwing)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...twing_0002.jpg


Second Robin: Jason Todd (aka Red Hood)

http://www.batcave.com.pl/old/grafa/...nt/jasont6.jpg


Third Robin: Tim Drake (aka Red Robin)

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120130032620



Yes, I know their names are goofy. Shut up, all superhero names are goofy.

This I did not know. I guess I have to afford them a little more respect now. Did any of these guys do anything I should know about, or did they just form the
EBS (The Ex-Batman's-Sidekick) club? :laughing:

More or less that, though considering they're Batman characters it really isn't surprising that they'd still be associated with him, along with all three Batgirls.

But Dick has led the Teen Titans, and has had his own comic ever since the late nineties; Jason was beaten to death by the Joker around the late eighties by the Joker, but then came back years later as a crazed vigilante who now has his own comic, along with Starfire from the Teen Titans and Arsenal, who was Green Arrows old sidekick; and I don't know much about Tim before the New 52 relaunch a few years ago, but he's now leading the Teen Titans himself.

So they've been given far more autonomy than pretty much any other sidekicks I can think of, barring Wally West, who was the Flash's sidekick until his death, after which Wally took his place.

Uh, how, if he was dead? :confused:

It's comic books, man. Nobody ever dies forever unless your name is "Gwen Stacy". Apparently he was found by Ra's al Ghul's League of Assassins and nursed back to health or something... and for some reason kept secret for years.

"Joker's Favor" is the tale of Charlie Collins, a poor put upon nobody, and his fateful meeting with the Joker on a dark road. After offending the maniacal clown, Charlie is forced to agree to doing him a favor... one which is not called in until two years later, when the Joker decides to crash an award ceremony honoring Commissioner Gordon.


————————————————


The Batlord: So, how was "Joker's Favor"?


Trollheart: Absolutely loved every minute.

The perfect Batman story.

The chance meeting leading to that guy Charles being used by the Joker.


The Batlord: Fantastic! I was worried that Joker's toned down characterization wouldn't gel with you.


Trollheart: No I loved it. The way he could be so off the cuff one minute and then deadly serious the next.

With accompanying music.

Harley Quinn was a gas too.

I particularly loved "Here's your two cents, now what ya gonna do to me?"


The Batlord: One thing we haven't covered yet that I was waiting to get into when we did the Joker is the voice casting of the show. Kevin Conroy as Batman, and Mark Hamill as the Joker are two of the best voice casting choices of all time IMO.


Trollheart: I don't know Conroy, but Hamill is brilliant in the part as the Joker.

Mind you, again the series sequence was fucked up. This was listed as "Prophecy of Doom". Very confusing.


The Batlord: Yes. Conroy's voice as Batman is pretty much the voice I hear in my head whenever I read a Batman comic. And Mark Hamill just nails the Joker. His campiness just contrasts so perfectly with that malevolence just under the surface. And that fucking laugh! It so perfectly personifies the Joker. He laughs like he thinks every horrible thing he does is hilarious, and yet from his tone, he isn't actually expressing anything other than sadistic pleasure.

He feels no joy or happiness, only cruelty.


Trollheart: And yet the way his expression changed when Batman had him, and he thought he would be caught, to say nothing of the part with the bomb being used against him.

Showed him for the coward he actually is, when he started calling Batman for help!


The Batlord: I thought that was a great throwback to The Killing Joke, where he says that anyone can be just like him. They just need one bad day. And then the poor schlub he'd been tormenting just turns the tables, acting just like the Joker. Except just like in The Killing Joke, he still retained his humanity in the end.

A perfect "Fuck you!" moment.


Trollheart: It's a while since I read that so I'll take your word. Nice to see Harley chained up! ;)

Thought it was kind of strange Joker would be just driving a sedan. I assumed he had a Jokermobile or something of that nature. Looked weird to see him behind the wheel of an ordinary car.


The Batlord: First appearance ever of Harley Quinn too. She was actually created purely as a one-off character for that episode, just because the writers needed someone to bring in the cake.

And then her popularity just snowballed.


Trollheart: I can see why.


The Batlord: Her character was developed much more in later episodes, and she even had four almost all to herself which are among the best of the series.


Trollheart: Do you think Charles knew that the bomb he had was a joke one? He looked desperate enough.


The Batlord: It seemed like he did, though I don't know how he would. Perhaps a bit of handwaving, but it still worked.


Trollheart: "Handwaving"?


The Batlord: You know, using a plot element that doesn't really make sense, and glossing over it in hopes that nobody will notice. Handwaving being like a magic trick or illusion I suppose.


Trollheart: Oh, ok, I see. Did you notice how, when they cut to Charles in his new identity just before the Joker rang, that the sky was really dark and stormy overhead, contrasting with the idyllic playing ball with his kid? Thought that was a nice touch.


The Batlord: I did not. Nice catch.


Trollheart: Yeah, it really gave you the impression something bad was about to disturb this perfect family scene.

Do you think the Joker planned all that, over two years, fitting Charles into his plan, intending to kill him, or was it just an opportunity for him that he couldn't pass up?

The premise seemed very weak, in that regard.


The Batlord: I think my favorite thing about the episode was how it perfectly expressed the Joker's inner thoughts. Not only is he so spiteful and egotistical that he can't let even a bit of road rage pass without tormenting some no name guy, but he's so in control of his hate and anger that he can keep it in check, all the while never letting it go so that he can stalk a man for two years before exacting his revenge.

The reason he chose that particular time was probably just whimsy.
He's the Joker after all. A mastermind who still makes decisions whenever it suits his fancy.


Trollheart: Pretty obvious he wasn't going to let him go back to his family. You think Charles realised that at all?


The Batlord: I'm sure he didn't trust the Joker to just let him go, but what are you gonna do when the Joker has you by the balls?


Trollheart: Plus they were watching his family.

Joker certainly has a massive ego though doesn't he? You can see how he's the total opposite of Batman, in temperament and motives.

And yet in some ways they're quite alike.


The Batlord: I had to search for the perfect Joker episode to do TBH, since he can't be the murderous madman that he'd become by that point. A lot of Joker episodes, especially the early ones, weren't actually that great. Mark Hamill still managed to elevate the part, but the stories were often too campy. But with this episode, the writers really showed ingenuity in getting around the strict edicts of their network overlords. It was a stroke of genius to show his malevolence in such a terrifying way (especially that scene in the beginning when the Joker confronts Charlie in the woods, like some inescapable horror movie villain) while still somehow keeping it in the confines of a children's show.


Trollheart: Yeah they really nailed that. You could feel for the guy as his car died, and then he's off stumbling through the woods. Then the two cents land at his feet...


The Batlord: It was also one of those episodes that wasn't Batman-centric. They had a lot of those, and they were generally pretty fantastic, as they often played around with "normal" comic book storytelling tropes.


Trollheart: Yeah, a real everyman thing. Sort of like that TNG ep, "Lower Decks". That was great.


The Batlord: Characters at the center of the story who could have been boring were somehow developed in a half hour in such a way that they became interesting in their own right.


Trollheart: It was funny/pathetic how Charles tried to explain to the Joker all the bad things that had happened to him that day, as if that would make a difference.


The Batlord: "And Bonnie's making meatloaf." LOL


Trollheart: Nice link at the end: "Wonder what Bonnie's making for dinner?"


The Batlord: I also really liked the scene when the Joker decided to crash Gordon's party. Harley starts cheering and whistling, the Joker takes a cheesy bow, and then expects his henchmen to start clapping even though it seemed like just some goofy clown antics. A subtle way to drive home just how insanely egotistical the Joker is.


Trollheart: Yeah she's a real cheerleader isn't she? Almost as mad as he is. Another father figure?

The bomb was brilliant, with the Joker's face and the eyes as the countdown timer dials.


The Batlord: Her relationship with the Joker will get explored later on. It's really one of the more compelling dynamics in comic book history. She comes off as a bimbo without a mind of her own, but she actually has a much deeper personality than she shows on the surface. She pretty much dumbs herself down to appease the Joker's need to dominate his underlings.

Not that she does so unwillingly. Her personality has just been completely subordinated by the Joker's own.

But we'll get more into that later.


Trollheart: I loved the line "What favour?" "I don't know! I haven't thought of it yet!"


The Batlord: "Well, look at the size of that cake, man! She can't open the door and push it in all at once. Think!"


Trollheart: "The Joke's on you, Commissioner!"

Batman was so peripheral in it, he was almost like a deus ex machina or something wasn't he?


The Batlord: Another great little tidbit was when Harley gave Charlie the gas mask. Like she and the Joker were maintaining the illusion that they were going to let him go until the very end. The very last punchline.


Trollheart: Oh, I missed that one.

I mean, I saw her give him the mask but didn't make the connection.

I think he had an idea once he saw the glue on the doorknob though.


The Batlord: And yeah, Charlie using the improvised Bat-Signal was more handwaving. If there's one problem with the writing of the show, it's that it often falls back on plot points that are just a bit too convenient.


Trollheart: Yeah, like how did he even know about that?


The Batlord: Comic book logic, man. You just kind of have to accept it sometimes.


Trollheart: And of course it would just be there, in an unlocked, unguarded room where anyone could get at it.


The Batlord: And why was there a giant bat sculpture suspended in the air in the first place?


Trollheart: Indeed. Totally batshit crazy. :)


The Batlord: The look of the Joker is great, too. The eyes are just so creepy. And the smile with those yellowed teeth.


Trollheart: The smile is scary as shit.

And when his lips droop down in a scowl...

He's probably the greatest comic book villain ever created.


The Batlord: I'd recommend reading The Man Who Laughs. It's a modern graphic novel retelling the first ever Joker story from back in 1940. It really gets into his head in a way that makes you realize that underneath the whimsical facade, there is really nothing but pure hate for the world and everyone in it. He's sort of like a demon that way, hating the living simply for being alive.


Trollheart: Who wrote it?


The Batlord: Ed Brubaker. I forget what else he's done off the top of my head, but he's a fantastic writer.


Trollheart: I'll look for it.

Got it.

Downloading now.


The Batlord: You won't be disappointed. One of the all-time great Joker stories. Right up there with The Killing Joke.


Trollheart: Looking forward to it.


The Batlord: So is there anything else you'd like to mention?


Trollheart: I don't think so. Think we've covered it all.

Hope there'll be episodes as good as that one in the future.


The Batlord: Yes, there are many, many episodes of the same caliber.

So, as always, Batman out. Trollheart is Robin. So he doesn't matter.