Soultrain.com did a Q and A with Gamble and Huff about their experiences, the philly sound various artists they worked with including the Jacksons.





SoulTrain.com: You gentlemen have written the soundtrack to a lot of people’s lives. What inspired you to become songwriters/producers?

Leon Huff: Well, I’ve been playing the piano since I was five years old, which is something I always loved.


Kenny Gamble: I guess it’s something you’re born with. But I also listened to the radio back in Philadelphia and I loved to hear the music of artists like Frankie Lymon, the Dells, the Moonglows, Flamingos and Chuck Jackson. When my family got a television when I was 10 years old, there was a movie called The Glenn Miller Story which I always loved because it was a great movie about Glenn Miller and his band. I always used to say, even back then, one day I’m going to have a band and lo and behold it all really happened. It’s one thing to think about something but it’s another thing when it really happens in a big way.

SoulTrain.com: How did you guys meet up?

Kenny Gamble: We met in a building called the Shubert building. Huff was working on the second floor. Thom Bell and I were working with a producer’s group up on the sixth floor. So one day we met each other in the elevator and struck up a conversation. We always wanted to do the same thing, to get into the music business and write songs. I found out Huff was a keyboard player and basically I’m a lyricist. So we got together one day over at his house and we’ve been writing since then. It was like magic, something you can’t explain.

SoulTrain.com: You two had a couple of record labels before Philadelphia International Records, right?

Kenny Gamble: Yes. We had Gamble Records first with the Intruders’ “Cowboys to Girls,” “United,” and “Together.” Most of the songs on the label were regional hits until we came up with “Cowboys to Girls” which was our first big national top ten hit.

SoulTrain.com: What was the first record you guys did with The O’Jays?

Kenny Gamble: “One Night Affair,” which was on our other label Neptune Records.

SoulTrain.com: All of those were great recordings, but when you two formed Philadelphia International Records in the early seventies, your careers truly went into the stratosphere. What was the inspiration for a song like “LoveTrain?” On a segment of Soul Train, Eddie Levert of the O’Jays stated that they believed “Love Train” was inspired by Soul Train.

Kenny Gamble: “Love Train” is a song Huff and I wrote that came from a conversation. Most of the songs we wrote came from conversations that Huff and I used to have. That particular conversation was about the world and how people can’t get along with each other. Then that melody just came up and the lyrics “people all over the world join hands.” People loving one another is what we were talking about. The lyrics spoke about all of the countries in the world. We got as many of them in there as we could.

SoulTrain.com: It is definitely a timeless song that came on the heels of Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On?” and other songs in the same vein by Curtis Mayfield, James Brown and other artists.

Kenny Gamble: Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield and James Brown were guys who wrote tremendous message songs. As a matter of fact, the greatest message song that’s ever been released is James Brown’s “Say It Loud, I’m Black and I’m Proud.”

SoulTrain.com: Absolutely! Without a doubt Mr. Brown just put it right out there for black people to be proud of who they are. But you guys can hold your own, too!

Kenny Gamble: We had a lot of great writers with us such as McFadden & Whitehead, Thom Bell, Linda Creed and Bunny Sigler. We had quite a few great writers that were working with us, which gave us the ability to be more productive.

SoulTrain.com: The whole Philly International team was a great team. Many have said a classic song like “Me & Mrs. Jones” by Billy Paul was inspired by how there was a lot of “Me & Mrs. Jones-ing” going on.

Kenny Gamble: Yeah! It’s still going on.

SoulTrain.com: The songs that you gentlemen have written are so timeless, songs like “Back Stabbers,” “Shiftless Shady Jealous Kind of People,” “The Love I Lost,” “Groovy People,” “You Can’t Hide From Yourself” and “Don’t Call Me Brother.”

Kenny Gamble: “Don’t Call Me Brother” is a real good one.

SoulTrain.com: Indeed. The list goes on and on. Did you guys just ever stop to analyze all of the incredible songs you have written? Being that I am a writer as well, I know that when you write, a lot of things just come to you. You don’t really think about it.

Kenny Gamble: Our theme was, there’s a message in the music. We put messages in the songs that people would relate to and talk about everyday life, the social conditions, especially for African American people.

SoulTrain.com: So many of your songs need to be blasted on loudspeakers in inner-city neighborhoods across the country because there are so many things plaguing those areas.

Kenny Gamble: Yes.

SoulTrain.com: This month marks the 40th anniversary of the Soul Train theme “T.S.O.P (The Sound of Philadelphia)” when it was first used as the program’s new theme song. How did that theme come about?

Kenny Gamble: Well first of all, Huff and I were very good friends with Don Cornelius. Don worked very closely with us. He put all of our artists on his show. There was no other way for African American artists to get national exposure except for Soul Train. Don was a wonderful guy. I used to talk to Don once or twice a week. One day he and I were talking and I told him, “Man, you need a new theme song.”

SoulTrain.com: The prior theme that was being used was a King Curtis tune called “Hot Potato.”

Kenny Gamble: Yeah. It was okay but Don needed something fresh. So Don said why don’t you do a new song for me and I told him to come on down to Philadelphia. So he came into Philadelphia and we worked on it. The first day we went into the studio we didn’t get anything. We had a couple of things but not what we expected. So we told Don to stay over one more night and Huff and I went back into the office and came up with that Soul Train concept, and when we and MFSB went back into the studio that Sunday, that was it! It clicked. It was unbelievable!Theme. Later on, Don Cornelius told me, “That’s the worst mistake I made not calling it ‘The Soul Train Theme’.”

SoulTrain.com: The song was a smash going number one both soul and pop.

Kenny Gamble: It was number one all over the world. When you hear “T.S.O.P.” you think of Soul Train.

SoulTrain.com: That was definitely a testament to the popularity of the song and Soul Train. The song is synonymous with Soul Train. When you saw the theme being used on the show for the first time, what was your reaction?

Kenny Gamble: It was great! The kids could dance to it and the greatest part of it was that at the end of the show, the credit read “The Soul Train Theme by Gamble & Huff.”

SoulTrain.com: You both must have been so excited when that song became such a big hit all over the world.

Leon Huff: Absolutely! I felt good when Gamble and I were writing it.

SoulTrain.com: Technically, “T.S.O.P” was used as Soul Train’s theme for only two seasons and they had other themes over the years, but “T.S.O.P” is the song that most people identify with Soul Train to this day.

Leon Huff: It was good that we and Don worked together and made history together. “T.S.O.P” and the album Love is the Message which included “T.S.O.P” were number one at the same time.

SoulTrain.com: You mentioned the Three Degrees earlier. They weren’t a new group but were new to the Philadelphia International label. How did they become a part of “T.S.O.P” and doing the background vocals?

Leon Huff: They were great singers and had a lot of good ideas, and we needed background singers for the song since there was a part for that. We had just started to work with them during that time.

SoulTrain.com: We were talking about your theme being “message in the music.” That also held true for the album covers for your artists, such as the water color cover art for the Love is the Message album with images of a skull, the KKK, people picketing, and police dogs. It epitomized a time when album covers were very creative.

Kenny Gamble: Yes, album covers were very important. Another album cover for MFSB had a casket with a needle inside of it. That was one hell of a cover!

SoulTrain.com: It sure was! Then there’s the O’Jays Ship Ahoy album cover showing the group and other black people as slaves on a slave ship. But just the song “Ship Ahoy” itself is a masterpiece. As you’re listening to the song, you feel like you are actually on the slave ship because you hear the whips and the motion of the ship moving. You gentlemen are just incredible. How did that come about?

Kenny Gamble: “Ship Ahoy” was a recording that was like theater, like a play. It was music that you could see. You play that record and close your eyes and you feel like you are on one of those slave ships and that’s the first time that I know of that two writers had came up with and documented that experience with music.

SoulTrain.com: I applaud you gentlemen because it is a timeless tune.

Kenny Gamble: Thank you. Huff and I were on a roll. We were writing about life.

Leon Huff: The good, the bad and the ugly about life. We were writing about it all.

SoulTrain.com: Yes, like “For the Love of Money” or,as Don Cornelius would say when introducing the song on Soul Train, “For the love of cash money!” The interesting thing about the song “Bad Luck” by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes is the latter part in which Teddy Pendergrass sang about President Richard Nixon being impeached and his ultimate resignation. That was just put right on the table.

Kenny Gamble: “Bad Luck” was written by McFadden & Whitehead and Victor Carstarphen, but Huff and I produced it. We had some great writers and people with us.

SoulTrain.com: After the Jackson 5 left Motown and became The Jacksons, you worked with them and produced their first two albums on the Epic/Philadelphia International Records label and the first single “Enjoy Yourself” brought them back into the pop top ten. What was it like working with them?

Leon Huff: It was truly an incredible experience working with The Jacksons.

SoulTrain.com: I’m sure it was, and I read Michael Jackson was like a sponge and really studied you guys as well as McFadden & Whitehead.

Kenny Gamble: One of the songs on our label, “Brandy” by The O’Jays, which was written by staff writer Joe Jefferson and produced by Thom Bell, was a good song. A lot of people didn’t know the song was about a dog.

SoulTrain.com: Right. I always thought “Brandy” was about a woman.

Kenny Gamble: That’s what everyone thought in the beginning.

SoulTrain.com: Sadly, McFadden & Whitehead are no longer with us and they were genius writers and came up with their own album and classic song “Ain’t No Stoppin’ Us Now.” What would you like to say in their memory?

Leon Huff: They were very talented. We had a great time working with them.

SoulTrain.com: Mr. Huff, you actually had your own album with great cuts like “Tight Money.” How did it feel to cut your album after producing and writing for other artists?

Leon Huff: Yes. I did an album called Here To Create Music. I really enjoyed doing that. There’s another song on that album that people are still dancing to called that took on a life of its own called “I Ain’t Jivin’, I’m Jammin.’”

SoulTrain.com: What do you think of sampling? I know some veteran artists like Smokey Robinson said it’s a tribute to him when his music is sampled, while other artists say sampling is indicative that people are not creative enough to make their own music. What do you think of that?

Leon Huff: Well, I’m not negative about it. I’m like Smokey, keep on sampling. It’s an art form. It’s a new art form for the new generation. I’m dazzled by the way they do it. You can’t stop progress. But you have to do the paperwork along with that. Then everyone’s happy.

SoulTrain.com: You gentlemen have done so much in the recording industry. Is there anything else you want to do in the business or anyone else you would like to work with?

Full interview here
Q&A: The Legendary Gamble & Huff - Soul Train

Gamble-Huff Music Online have amazing rare footage of The Jacksons at the time they left Motown Records and moved on to Philadelphia International Records. RARE Early 1970's footage

Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff on recording with the Jacksons and a young MJ