Star Drek: Trollheart and The Batlord's Star Trek Voyager Slapfest!

Chula Vista · 10-21-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinJJustin

Galaxy Quest is an awesome film from my childhood though.

Jeez, I was 39 when that arrived in theaters.

The Batlord · 10-21-2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Slap-fight doesn't sound right, says he, hoping nobody will realise he ****ed up and is desperately trying to cover....

I was hoping to conjure images of this...

Plankton · 10-21-2014, 05:02 PM

Just ribbin ya TH. I've binged watched Star Trek TNG and the original series a few times (nothing beyond that), but GQ was a pretty good likeness, and as much of a parody of the whole culture.

Trollheart · 10-21-2014, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

You forgot the animated series that came out in the early 1970s with 22 episodes.

No I didn't. I debated with myself as to whether it constituted another Star Trek, but as it's basically Classic Trek but just animated I kind of tend to lump it in with TOS.

Unknown Soldier · 10-21-2014, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

No I didn't. I debated with myself as to whether it constituted another Star Trek, but as it's basically Classic Trek but just animated I kind of tend to lump it in with TOS.

Yes you did, so stop pretending.

Trollheart · 10-21-2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Yes you did, so stop pretending.

Didn't, didn't DID-NT!

Pet_Sounds · 10-21-2014, 10:15 PM

Trollheart and Unknown Soldier's Animated Slapfest

Neapolitan · 10-23-2014, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plankton

Galaxy Quest > Any Star Trek Series

By Grabthar's hammer, how dare you say that in a Star Trek thread!

Trollheart · 10-23-2014, 06:23 PM

"Mr. Paris ... Engage!"

Okay then, let's get this party started! For anyone who needs a refresher, has never seen the series or just needs a basic idea of what we're talking about, here's a Wiki link. We'll do this with each episode. If anyone has any specific questions that aren't answered by reading the Wiki synopsis, ask us.

Season One, Episode One: "Caretaker"
Caretaker (Star Trek: Voyager) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few snarky and really unimportant points before I make my case:

Cheesy lines: Betazoid (Scotty?) rebuffing the clumsy advances of Tom Paris: “Do you always fly at women at warp speed, Mister Paris?”
Paris: “Only when they're in visual range.” Oh puke, man! Puke and double puke! Luckily, they quickly discarded these chat-up lines.

Neelix. Oh dear god! Neelix! Why? WHY? (More on that later, you can be sure).

Okay, those little niggles aside, I have, to be fair, few problems with this first episode. Well, I'd be a right dick if I kicked it on its maiden voyage now wouldn't I? But there is one fundamental flaw with the storyline that I have, and it needs to be addressed now, as it affected my enjoyment of the series ever after. The Maquis are the sworn enemy of the Federation and Starfleet, believing themselves betrayed by the one and chased by the other. Voyager was hunting them when they all got pulled into the Delta Quadrant. Now, at the end of the first episode, Janeway decides that “this will be one crew: a Starfleet crew.” And nobody has any objections?

Everyone just accepts it. There are no dissenting voices, despite Torres's perceived hatred of the Federation and not to mention that these are all technically outlaws. But to an extent that's ok: everyone has to live together and they're the only ones of their species --- so far as they know --- in this quadrant. But the seeds could and should have been sown for a real power struggle, as factions within the crew still loyal to the ideals of the Maquis sought to disrupt the missions, perhaps not quite sabotage the ship but certainly do all they could to make life harder for Janeway and Starfleet. After all, at this moment were they to get home all the Maquis would likely be imprisoned. They don't have a lot to look forward to.

It could have given rise to some great stories, some fine plots: a real Fifth Column within the Voyager crew. But it never happened. There was no uprising, no “terror cell”, no clandestine meetings in which the Maquis plotted the overthrow of Janeway and the mutiny on the Voyager. Just never happened. Everyone fell into line. Is that believable? All the hatred, all the injustice, all the sense of betrayal these people had at the Federation and Starfleet just went away, just like that? All was forgiven? Not one person cradled a dark desire to strike back at the military arm of the people who had signed over their homes to the Cardassians? Everyone was okay with it?

This could have provided tension and uncertainty throughout at least the first season. Instead, it was brushed aside as if the Maquis had never existed. A process that would become the norm as this series progressed.

To quote a line from Frasier, “That's what I got a problem with!” and Frasier's snobby reply, “I think he means, that is a thing with which he has a problem!”

Then there's the unilateral decision to destroy the array. Yes, she is captain and generally her word is law. But this was an extreme situation. She was essentially condemning people --- some very young, like Kim --- to what could be a lifetime away from their own kind. She was effectively sentencing the entire crew of Voyager, and the Maquis, to a 75-year prison sentence. They would never see their friends or loved ones again. They would never serve on another starship, unless as a passenger after retirement. If they had children, they could be dead before the crew would even get back to see them. It's a horrible decision she was faced with, and I know it happened quickly and couldn't be debated, but she never even asked anyone. She just made the decision, for everyone.

What about the Maquis? They didn't sign up for this, and they certainly should have been angry at a Starfleet captain --- their enemy --- making such a pronouncement and condemning them to exile. I feel if Picard had been in this position things might have turned out differently. And was a race of aliens they were unaware even existed until a few days ago worth sacrificing the chance of ever seeing home again for?

Oh and I thought of one other thing since writing this: why did Janeway not look for a third option? She had two: destroy the array and be stranded there, or leave it and allow the genocide of the alien race to take place. But there could have been a third choice.

Surely, with all their inventive little Starfleet minds, they could have rigged something that would have detonated AFTER they had used the array to get back home, thereby accomplishing the twin tasks of protecting the Caretaker's legacy and also not forcing their crew to grow old in the Delta Quadant? But it wasn't even discussed. I know they were under attack, but aren't Starfleet personnel supposed to thrive under pressure? Even Tuvok, with his logical Vulcan mind, couldn't think of an alternative? He didn't question the captain's --- on the face of it --- crazy order? I know the needs of the many are supposed to outweigh the needs of the few, but come on...

Well, over to you, Bats!

The Batlord · 10-24-2014, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Cheesy lines: Betazoid (Scotty?) rebuffing the clumsy advances of Tom Paris: “Do you always fly at women at warp speed, Mister Paris?”
Paris: “Only when they're in visual range.” Oh puke, man! Puke and double puke! Luckily, they quickly discarded these chat-up lines.

I'll give you that. Although I find the racist line right before that more cringe-worthy.

Quote:

Neelix. Oh dear god! Neelix! Why? WHY?

Quote:

(More on that later, you can be sure).

What is so terrible about Neelix? The scenes between him and Tuvoc were delightful.

Quote:

Okay, those little niggles aside, I have, to be fair, few problems with this first episode. Well, I'd be a right dick if I kicked it on its maiden voyage now wouldn't I? But there is one fundamental flaw with the storyline that I have, and it needs to be addressed now, as it affected my enjoyment of the series ever after. The Maquis are the sworn enemy of the Federation and Starfleet, believing themselves betrayed by the one and chased by the other. Voyager was hunting them when they all got pulled into the Delta Quadrant. Now, at the end of the first episode, Janeway decides that “this will be one crew: a Starfleet crew.” And nobody has any objections?

Everyone just accepts it. There are no dissenting voices, despite Torres's perceived hatred of the Federation and not to mention that these are all technically outlaws. But to an extent that's ok: everyone has to live together and they're the only ones of their species --- so far as they know --- in this quadrant. But the seeds could and should have been sown for a real power struggle, as factions within the crew still loyal to the ideals of the Maquis sought to disrupt the missions, perhaps not quite sabotage the ship but certainly do all they could to make life harder for Janeway and Starfleet. After all, at this moment were they to get home all the Maquis would likely be imprisoned. They don't have a lot to look forward to.

It could have given rise to some great stories, some fine plots: a real Fifth Column within the Voyager crew. But it never happened. There was no uprising, no “terror cell”, no clandestine meetings in which the Maquis plotted the overthrow of Janeway and the mutiny on the Voyager. Just never happened. Everyone fell into line. Is that believable? All the hatred, all the injustice, all the sense of betrayal these people had at the Federation and Starfleet just went away, just like that? All was forgiven? Not one person cradled a dark desire to strike back at the military arm of the people who had signed over their homes to the Cardassians? Everyone was okay with it?

This could have provided tension and uncertainty throughout at least the first season. Instead, it was brushed aside as if the Maquis had never existed. A process that would become the norm as this series progressed.

To quote a line from Frasier, “That's what I got a problem with!” and Frasier's snobby reply, “I think he means, that is a thing with which he has a problem!”

Then there's the unilateral decision to destroy the array. Yes, she is captain and generally her word is law. But this was an extreme situation. She was essentially condemning people --- some very young, like Kim --- to what could be a lifetime away from their own kind. She was effectively sentencing the entire crew of Voyager, and the Maquis, to a 75-year prison sentence. They would never see their friends or loved ones again. They would never serve on another starship, unless as a passenger after retirement. If they had children, they could be dead before the crew would even get back to see them. It's a horrible decision she was faced with, and I know it happened quickly and couldn't be debated, but she never even asked anyone. She just made the decision, for everyone.

What about the Maquis? They didn't sign up for this, and they certainly should have been angry at a Starfleet captain --- their enemy --- making such a pronouncement and condemning them to exile. I feel if Picard had been in this position things might have turned out differently. And was a race of aliens they were unaware even existed until a few days ago worth sacrificing the chance of ever seeing home again for?

Oh and I thought of one other thing since writing this: why did Janeway not look for a third option? She had two: destroy the array and be stranded there, or leave it and allow the genocide of the alien race to take place. But there could have been a third choice.

Surely, with all their inventive little Starfleet minds, they could have rigged something that would have detonated AFTER they had used the array to get back home, thereby accomplishing the twin tasks of protecting the Caretaker's legacy and also not forcing their crew to grow old in the Delta Quadant? But it wasn't even discussed. I know they were under attack, but aren't Starfleet personnel supposed to thrive under pressure? Even Tuvok, with his logical Vulcan mind, couldn't think of an alternative? He didn't question the captain's --- on the face of it --- crazy order? I know the needs of the many are supposed to outweigh the needs of the few, but come on...

Well, over to you, Bats!

Nobody ever watched Voyager for its brilliant writing. They watch it cause it's another chance to see Star Trek-style sci-fi goodness. Is the ease with which the Maquis and Federation get along dubious? Yes. But it's just a setup for the rest of the series, so who really gives a ****?

I will also point out that we are reviewing one episode at this point, and not an entire series, or even an entire season. So his points about how the series may or may not develop are irrelevant at this point and should be ignored. I would also like to say that, while it has been years since I have an episode of Voyager, I do remember there being tension with at least part of the Maquis. How this played out I really don't remember, but I question whether my colleague even knows what he's talking about, since it sounds like it's been a long while since my vaguely-esteemed colleague has even seen an episode of Voyager, so it seems unfair for him to be referencing views that may have been colored with the passing of years.

But aside from Trollheart's pithy whining about the Maquis, I was surprisingly entertained by this episode. The buildup before Voyager was dropped into the Delta quadrant wasn't anything particularly special, but the array being populated by holographic hillbillies was more than a little amusing, and did a nice job pulling the rug out from under me. There have been many odd episodes of Star Trek over the years, but I wasn't expecting to have something like that dropped on my head so quickly.

The underground city was probably the biggest highlight though. I imagine the special effects they used to render it so bitchin'ly cost more than a normal episode would allow, but as a way to impress right off the bat, it worked quite well.

(Unfortunately the only scans I could find are kind of ****ty.)

Spoiler for isdbvd:

This wasn't the most brilliant episode of Star Trek ever by any means, but it was still a fair amount of fun, and Trollheart seems to be going out of his way to rob himself of that fun.

10-21-2014, 05:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	Just ribbin ya TH. I've binged watched Star Trek TNG and the original series a few times (nothing beyond that), but GQ was a pretty good likeness, and as much of a parody of the whole culture. __________________ See location...

10-21-2014, 10:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
Pet_Sounds Remember the underscore Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The other side Posts: 2,488	Trollheart and Unknown Soldier's Animated Slapfest __________________ Everybody's dying just to get the disease

10-23-2014, 06:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,994	"Mr. Paris ... Engage!" Okay then, let's get this party started! For anyone who needs a refresher, has never seen the series or just needs a basic idea of what we're talking about, here's a Wiki link. We'll do this with each episode. If anyone has any specific questions that aren't answered by reading the Wiki synopsis, ask us. *Season One, Episode One: "Caretaker"* Caretaker (Star Trek: Voyager) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A few snarky and really unimportant points before I make my case: Cheesy lines: Betazoid (Scotty?) rebuffing the clumsy advances of Tom Paris: “Do you always fly at women at warp speed, Mister Paris?” Paris: “Only when they're in visual range.” Oh puke, man! Puke and double puke! Luckily, they quickly discarded these chat-up lines. Neelix. Oh dear god! Neelix! Why? WHY? (More on that later, you can be sure). Okay, those little niggles aside, I have, to be fair, few problems with this first episode. Well, I'd be a right dick if I kicked it on its maiden voyage now wouldn't I? But there is one fundamental flaw with the storyline that I have, and it needs to be addressed now, as it affected my enjoyment of the series ever after. The Maquis are the sworn enemy of the Federation and Starfleet, believing themselves betrayed by the one and chased by the other. Voyager was hunting them when they all got pulled into the Delta Quadrant. Now, at the end of the first episode, Janeway decides that “this will be one crew: a Starfleet crew.” And nobody has any objections? Everyone just accepts it. There are no dissenting voices, despite Torres's perceived hatred of the Federation and not to mention that these are all technically outlaws. But to an extent that's ok: everyone has to live together and they're the only ones of their species --- so far as they know --- in this quadrant. But the seeds could and should have been sown for a real power struggle, as factions within the crew still loyal to the ideals of the Maquis sought to disrupt the missions, perhaps not quite sabotage the ship but certainly do all they could to make life harder for Janeway and Starfleet. After all, at this moment were they to get home all the Maquis would likely be imprisoned. They don't have a lot to look forward to. It could have given rise to some great stories, some fine plots: a real Fifth Column within the Voyager crew. But it never happened. There was no uprising, no “terror cell”, no clandestine meetings in which the Maquis plotted the overthrow of Janeway and the mutiny on the Voyager. Just never happened. Everyone fell into line. Is that believable? All the hatred, all the injustice, all the sense of betrayal these people had at the Federation and Starfleet just went away, just like that? All was forgiven? Not one person cradled a dark desire to strike back at the military arm of the people who had signed over their homes to the Cardassians? Everyone was okay with it? This could have provided tension and uncertainty throughout at least the first season. Instead, it was brushed aside as if the Maquis had never existed. A process that would become the norm as this series progressed. To quote a line from Frasier, “That's what I got a problem with!” and Frasier's snobby reply, “I think he means, that is a thing with which he has a problem!” Then there's the unilateral decision to destroy the array. Yes, she is captain and generally her word is law. But this was an extreme situation. She was essentially condemning people --- some very young, like Kim --- to what could be a lifetime away from their own kind. She was effectively sentencing the entire crew of Voyager, and the Maquis, to a 75-year prison sentence. They would never see their friends or loved ones again. They would never serve on another starship, unless as a passenger after retirement. If they had children, they could be dead before the crew would even get back to see them. It's a horrible decision she was faced with, and I know it happened quickly and couldn't be debated, but she never even asked anyone. She just made the decision, for everyone. What about the Maquis? They didn't sign up for this, and they certainly should have been angry at a Starfleet captain --- their enemy --- making such a pronouncement and condemning them to exile. I feel if Picard had been in this position things might have turned out differently. And was a race of aliens they were unaware even existed until a few days ago worth sacrificing the chance of ever seeing home again for? Oh and I thought of one other thing since writing this: why did Janeway not look for a third option? She had two: destroy the array and be stranded there, or leave it and allow the genocide of the alien race to take place. But there could have been a third choice. Surely, with all their inventive little Starfleet minds, they could have rigged something that would have detonated AFTER they had used the array to get back home, thereby accomplishing the twin tasks of protecting the Caretaker's legacy and also not forcing their crew to grow old in the Delta Quadant? But it wasn't even discussed. I know they were under attack, but aren't Starfleet personnel supposed to thrive under pressure? Even Tuvok, with his logical Vulcan mind, couldn't think of an alternative? He didn't question the captain's --- on the face of it --- crazy order? I know the needs of the many are supposed to outweigh the needs of the few, but come on... Well, over to you, Bats! __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018