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Old 10-30-2014, 07:32 AM   #2481 (permalink)
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And so it begins...
Like I said, I based THAT section on a comparison of how long each track was, as an indicator of value for money. It's not perfect, but how could it be? Also, the only long tracks I whined about were on albums I did not enjoy. If you don't like something then the longer the track is the worse it will be to you. I never whined about Marillion's "Grendel" or Pendragon's "Wishing well" or It Bites's "Once around the world". I don't whine about long tracks, just long tracks I don't like.

I don't think I whine, do I? Do I?
Don't worry, Trollheart, they're just pissed off because the debut lost.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:34 AM   #2482 (permalink)
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and Paranoid is overrated in my opinion.
In what way?
Even the non classic songs are some of the best songs Sabbath wrote.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:09 AM   #2483 (permalink)
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When did I ever say that? In any comparison of this sort you have to take popularity into account, though it was by no means the only criterion used, as you can see.


You know, to paraphrase Urban to me a day or so ago: all the work that went into that, all the time spent on it, all the data collected and all the factors involved, and THIS is all you got from it? Bitching about two small areas which, while certainly relevant, did not by themselves determine the outcome. I loked at as many different angles as I could, tried taking into account every aspect of each album, and came to my logical conclusion --- which I don't agree with, but it is what it is.

You know what? If you two are so smart, try doing it yourselves. It was not easy I can tell you.

Also, at Frown: remember when I reviewed the Sigh album? I was worrying about "Slaughterhouse suite", which ran for 15 minutes, but when I got to it I loved it, and didn't want it to end. I take a little offence at your contention that I bitched about the longer songs. I think I gave everything a fair listen, skipped virtually nothing and in some cases completely changed my mind on the longer tracks, in some did not. It's all relative anyway.
Uh, I was just confused about the inconsistency I saw which you then clarified. No need to get defensive. If it's worth anything I'm glad the better album won out.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:35 AM   #2484 (permalink)
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In what way?
Even the non classic songs are some of the best songs Sabbath wrote.
Because I think the debut, the follow-up, and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are all better.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:54 AM   #2485 (permalink)
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Because I think the debut, the follow-up, and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are all better.
Like I said I prefer Vol 4, that doesn't make Paranoid overrated though.
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:34 AM   #2486 (permalink)
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Popularity isn't relevant when it comes to quality, and Paranoid is overrated in my opinion.
WHAT! Paranoid is probably the single greatest metal album of the 1970s and probably the reason why most metal guitarists decided to pick up a guitar in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Trollheart View Post
When did I ever say that? In any comparison of this sort you have to take popularity into account, though it was by no means the only criterion used, as you can see.

You know, to paraphrase Urban to me a day or so ago: all the work that went into that, all the time spent on it, all the data collected and all the factors involved, and THIS is all you got from it? Bitching about two small areas which, while certainly relevant, did not by themselves determine the outcome. I loked at as many different angles as I could, tried taking into account every aspect of each album, and came to my logical conclusion --- which I don't agree with, but it is what it is.

You know what? If you two are so smart, try doing it yourselves. It was not easy I can tell you.
Most people don't appreciate your way of doing things.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:01 PM   #2487 (permalink)
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We're finishing up this section with two final choices from the one guy. Why? Well they're the last two left, and though I still have several of Batty's suggestions to listen to, I've been rather busy being turned into a girl and held captive in his Torture Chamber (last installment tomorrow), so haven't been able to lend an ear to his other less, shall we say, ear-destroying choices?

So these are the last two, for this year.


Steadfast --- Forefather --- 2008 (Seven Kingdoms)
Suggested by mythsofmetal
I’m sure it’s mere coincidence that the album sleeve looks somewhat similar to recently-reviewed ReinXeed and indeed to Fireforce, recently posted in the new “It’s a new day, and a new Metal band!” thread, but it seems this music has little if anything to do with either. Both of the aforementioned are Power Metal bands, while these guys are Viking Metal, born on the shores of that most Norse of settlements, er, Leatherhead in Surrey. That’s down by the coast, isn’t it? Chances are these guys’ ancestors were busy repelling the Vikings as they tried to take their women and land! Oh well. We've certainly had our share of Viking Metal this month, but these guys I have not come across up to now.

Another two-piece, they go by the suitably Norse pseudonyms of Wulfstan (Guitar, bass and vocals) and Atheistan (Guitar, Bass and, er, vocals?) The lyrics seem to include some words in another language, I would guess Norwegian or Swedish. No wait I’m wrong: it’s Old English apparently. And it may only be on this one song. Yeah, it’s just this one. Sorry to say, we’re back to growly vocals but the guitars are very heroic and hard as “Brunanburh” starts the album off, certainly fighting music, that’s for sure. Slows down then in the middle, kind of maintaining the same basic riff though which reminds me in part of Urfuast, recently reviewed.

“Cween of the Mark” (I assume that’s an old spelling of queen, as the song appears to have a female protagonist) is faster, with the vocals a little more to the forefront; whereas in the previous song they sort of chanted along to a degree, here they’re spat with venom. Good guitar work from the two guys, but as to who’s drumming (someone must be, and I’d be willing to bet it’s not a Linn) I can’t tell you as they’re not credited. Kind of Maidenesque guitar sound to “Theodish belief”, a song about honour and loyalty, and belief in the ancient ways. It has all the swagger and strut of a good Manowar track, though Eric Adams never sung this way. “Hallowed halls” goes for broke, bringing in speed metal influences for the first time, and it’s interesting that this is the first song written solo by Atheistan, so he must prefer the faster songs.

It slows down then for a beer-hall chant as Atheistan relates the joys of Valhalla: ”Oh, they feast in their hallowed halls/ Ghostly warriors ashen and pale/ Shadows dance in the light of the flame/ Gold and majesty, glory and fame.” Yeah, those Vikings sure did know how to have a good time, even after death! The title track is up next, and it’s another Atheistan number, another fast rocker, the thrust of which is not hard to guess from the title. Vikings were all about truth, glory and honour, and so this song celebrates those virtues, pledging to take on all comers and not to flinch. When Atheistan takes the songwriting reins it seems that Forefather’s music falls more on the thrash/speed side of the divide, whereas from what I’ve seen so far at any rate, Wulfstan is more a pagan/Viking man.

Ah, but then the next song is a Wulfstan one, but sounds like an Atheistan composition, hammering along on rails of fire and steel. So what do I know? Lyric’s a bit odd though: ”With gathering strength and growing will/ They turned to bite the hand that feeds” --- what hand that feeds? If he’s talking about the Vikings it was never a case of turning against their masters, as they had none. Strange. Good guitar passage here near the end, and it takes us into the only instrumental on the album, “Eostre”. I have no idea how that is pronounced, or what it means, but it’s a somewhat laidback opening which then smashes into a full-on crunching guitar assault, music that would not be out of place accompanying a victorious march from battle.

The appearance of a comet, or meteor, confuses the Vikings in “Fire in the sky”, as they wait for their seers and witches to divine what the omen means. Are the gods angry? Do they demand battle? Is it a warning? Natural phenomena such as these coloured the beliefs and decisions of people all through the ancient world, as they had no way to explain them and so took them as signs from the gods. Whether they were good or bad signs was up to the holy men and women to work out. The suspicion, hope, fear and dread as well as a sense of uncertainty and not a little awe is evident in the trundling guitar work of the duo, as the vocal is growled, by Wulfstan I assume, as he’s shown as being on lead vocals, and then another voice picks it up, a clearer, cleaner vocal, which I have to take as being that of Atheistan. Pity he doesn’t sing more of the songs; I far prefer his voice. He does take a lot of this song though, so that’s certainly welcome.

With a soft acoustic guitar intro and a title like “Mellowing of the mains”, you might be fooled into thinking this was a ballad --- I was --- but it soon blows that notion to hell as the boys hit you full in the face with their guitar attack and the song belts along, seeming to refer to some rite or spell being cast, while “Wolfhead’s tree” relates the tale of a man dying, having been hanged from the branches of said tree as he contemplates the events that have brought him to this pass, and wonders what awaits him in the world beyond? Of course it’s a lament, but there’s also a great sense of defiance and fatalism about it: the kind of man hanging on this tree who says I made my bed and I’ll lie on it, and given the chance would do nothing differently.

There’s a surprise at the end, with a sort of minstrel-ish rondelay which seems to have much of the lyric in another language: that Old English again, or German maybe? Hard to say. Then it jumps into a Maidenesque groove as “Miri it is” (don’t ask me) closes the album in, shall we say, unexpected style. Oddly enough, while there were credits for each other song on the album this one is not noted, so I wonder if it is some traditional folk song arranged by the boys? It’s certainly different to the other material on the album, though not so much so that it’s out of place.

TRACKLISTING

1. Brunaburnh
2. Cween of the mark
3. Theodish belief
4. Hallowed halls
5. Steadfast
6. Three great ships
7. Eostre
8. Fire from the sky
9. Mellowing of the mains
10. Wolfhead’s tree
11. Miri it is

Not a bad album in the end. Could do without the gutteral vocals but I’’m beginning to get used to them at this stage. For an album with such high-minded expectation though it sort of didn’t really deliver for me. It wasn’t just the vocals; the tunes all sounded quite similar and I’d be hard pushed to pick one out that really stood out, or that I would remember. Steadfast perhaps, but that’s not always a good thing, at least, not on its own.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:06 PM   #2488 (permalink)
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Yeah. Feel an apology may be due here.
Any time you like, guys!
Nah seriously, it's me that needs to apologise. I think I came off a little short and snappy

towards you two, but it's just when you've put your heart and soul into something, spent a long time trying to get it just right, and then the only comments turn out to be criticisms or complaints about a tiny portion of what you've been working on, well, it hurts, y'know?

But I realise nobody was trying to be nasty and I think my response was definitely a little heated, so sorry about that guys. Hope nobody took offence.

Man! This has been one long month!
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:20 PM   #2489 (permalink)
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Not wishing to push my luck any further, I've decided to continue on with another band I know a little about. Admittedly, they come from Northern Ireland, but then, I never said this would not be an examination of all the bands from the island of Ireland, as we're fond of saying here. For those who for some reason may not know, Northern Ireland and its six counties, including its capital city Belfast, are considered part of the United Kingdom and are under the control of the British Government. Simplistically: I don't have the time or desire to go into the ins and outs of Northern Irish politics here. But generally, Northern Ireland is treated as being separate from the rest of Ireland, or Southern Ireland. I'm happy to include them though. Tiocadh ar la!*


Infernal love --- Therapy? --- 1995 (A&M)
Together for over ten years now, Therapy? (the question mark is very important) have a total of thirteen albums to date, of which this is the fifth. They got harder and darker as time went on, and when I reviewed their latest, “A brief crack of light”, in 2012, I was not impressed. Let's see if their earlier albums were any better.

“Epilepsy” gets us going, with a strangely ambient opening on either feedback guitar or synth, then the guitar blasts right to the fore as the song gets going. Seems at this point Therapy? were a three-piece, and guitars and vocals are handled at this time by Andy Cairns, also founder of the band. Can't say I think too much of this to be honest: seems a little disjointed. The title of the album is repeated over and over again, so I guess in a way this is the title track. Nice bass run there from Michael McKeegan, then Fyfe Ewing punches the drums up again as the song pounds towards its conclusion.

With the sound of what seems to be a radio being tuned to different stations as a guitar riffs in between, “Stories” initially at least sounds like it's a bit more cohesive, with a sort of mixture of the Jam and the Clash in its rhythm. Therapy? reportedly have a lot of punk influences in their music, and this is certainly evident in the vocal delivery, though here it's a bit more together. More of a --- say it with me --- melody. Nice solo there from Cairns. “A moment of clarity” dials back the chaos for a moment with what certainly sounds like a keyboard, though none is shown. Nice slow simple guitar and Cairns's vocal is gentle and even.

The guitar then gets harder but the tempo remains mostly the same, so I'm not so sure I can write this off as not being the ballad I thought it might have been. Yeah, I think it can qualify. Very nice. Passionate vocal, sharp but somehow soft guitars. It's also one of the longer songs, just over six minutes. I must admit, I smiled at the title “Jude the obscene”: very clever. It of course kicks the tempo back up, but not all that much. Good vocal too, and after the discordance of the first track things seem to have settled down rather nicely. This has a good chugging guitar and some smooth riffing too. Like the hook in the song, but I must admit it has traces of U2 about it. There's a chance for McKeegan to swap his bass for a lead guitar in “Bowels of love”, the song an understated one, almost balladic and featuring the first appearance of cello, courtesy of Martin McCarrick. A contender for standout with “A moment of clarity”, this one easily takes top slot. Just wonderful.

With the sound of a helicopter swooping in and then gunfire, for a moment I think I'm listening to Def Leppard's “Die hard the hunter”, but then a big angry guitar and rattling drums carry us into “Misery”, with a sort of drawled vocal from Cairns, those punk tinges coming back in after a rather long break. Good rocking beat, again a decent hook. I very much like the guitar that gets “Bad mother” underway, sort of a Duane Eddy feel to it? Really rocks along with enthusiasm and energy, very enjoyable. Love the way it slows right down near the end allowing McKeegan to display his considerable prowess on the bass, and Ewing to create some pretty amazing sounds on his kit. This takes us into “Me vs You”, which is in fact the longest track, just under six and a half minutes.

A slow, kind of ominous start, with single drum beats behind a lonely guitar then an almost Peter Gabriel style vocal before the song explodes in anger and power, seeming to be an exchange between a couple, the girl presumably behind the door on which the man is banging, trying to get in, this being symbolised by the slow, pounding drum beats. Creates quite an uncomfortable atmosphere, as if some act of violence is about to be perpetrated. Great guitar work as well as a smouldering, almost evil vocal from Cairns. Another standout? You bet your ass. Some strange synthy-style effects then near the end and Ewing brings in a kind of conga drum routine and then we pile into “Loose”, a good uptempo and sort of happy rocker. Quite commercial, would have made a decent single. Really like this one too.

I definitely like this earlier incarnation of Therapy? After the first track I wasn't sure, but now I can see that they make, or made, really good music that fully deserves to be better known outside of Ireland, but isn't. Next up is the only cover on the album, with a dark piano note (come on, it has to be piano!) their version of Husker Du's “Diane” is cloying, claustrophobic and reintroduces Martin McCarrick on that beautiful cello. Either his work is multi-tracked or there are violins in there too, but it's pretty amazing. Chilling lyric though: ”We could cruise down Robert Street all night long/ But I think I'll just rape you/ And kill you instead.” Whoa! Nick Cave, eat your heart out, huh?

And that has to be another standout. Leaving us with just one track to close on, the frenetic and somewhat repetitive but great fun “30 seconds” which somehow is a fitting close to a really good album, with its punk/rockabilly hybrid brand of unrestrained energy and adventure. Class!

TRACKLISTING

1.Epilepsy
2. Stories
3. A moment of clarity
4. Jude the obscene
5. Bowels of love
6. Misery
7. Bad mother
8. Me vs you
9. Loose
10. Diane
11. 30 seconds

Just goes to show how a little experience can change your opinion of a band. When I listened to "A brief crack of light", back in 2012, I hated it. I hated the vocals. I hated the music. But now that I've been properly weaned on the likes of Slayer, Metallica, Viking and black metal, I think I could appreciate that album more now if I listened to it again. Mind you, the vocals here are totally different to what I remember on their latest album.

Even so, it's easy to see why Therapy? have lasted as long as they have in the Irish metal scene, and why they're still regarded as one of the premier metal bands to come out of the shores of my native land.

* "Tiocaidh ar la" (chucky or law) means literally "Our day will come" and is used, or was used, as a rallying cry by Irish nationalists, including the IRA, as a promise and a threat. It's still kind of used around here from time to time, mostly tongue-in-cheek.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:56 PM   #2490 (permalink)
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Yeah. Feel an apology may be due here.
Any time you like, guys!
Nah seriously, it's me that needs to apologise. I think I came off a little short and snappy

towards you two, but it's just when you've put your heart and soul into something, spent a long time trying to get it just right, and then the only comments turn out to be criticisms or complaints about a tiny portion of what you've been working on, well, it hurts, y'know?

But I realise nobody was trying to be nasty and I think my response was definitely a little heated, so sorry about that guys. Hope nobody took offence.

Man! This has been one long month!
Dude, no need to apologize. I should probably apologize instead, for providing petty criticism rather than praise for hard work. Sorry, man.
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