Trollheart

Have done, remember? Ok but kind of meh... not sure why you're wetting yourself over them to be honest. I've heard far, far better.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Trollheart

Since time immemorial (well, since 1970 anyway) Man has struggled in vain to answer the burning question that will not go away. That question that keeps us up at night, tossing and turning, grinding our teeth until we have to get up and put on the albums and listen to them again, and even then we don't know for sure which is better: Black Sabbath's debut or Paranoid?

Now, at last, this question will be answered for all time. Thousands of people --- well, hundreds --- well, a lot --- well, a few --- well, okay, one --- one person has laboured ceaselessly over the last few months to unravel this enigma and come up with a definitive answer. Using scientific logic and empirical data, we will pit these two legendary albums against each other, to see who comes out on top.

Take your places, sportsfans! It's time to


VS

Although debate has raged through this forum, and others, as well as other media, as to which album is the best, I am not making a personal choice here. Each album will be rigorously tested under the criteria shown below, and points awarded for each. At the end, we'll total up the points and see who comes out on top. Could be a shock, could be a foregone conclusion. Even I don't know the result at this time.

Some of these may seem frivolous concerns, but they all go to make up part of the picture, so bear with me.

The first point is Year Released. This is easy. “Black Sabbath” came out in 1970, so did “Paranoid”, leaving the contest a dead heat.
Black Sabbath1, Paranoid 1

So no blows are struck. Each dances around the other, probing, feinting, looking for an opening.

Next we move on to Number of Tracks.
Black Sabbath has seven, eight if you include the CD reissue, but Paranoid has eight on vinyl, making it the clear winner in this section.
Black Sabbath 1, Paranoid 2

Paranoid lands the first blow. Black Sabbath reels back.

Now let's look at Album Lengths. It's all very well to have eight tracks when the other album has seven, but what if your eight run for less than its seven? This is clearly a case where size does matter, and the score comes out thus:
Black Sabbath runs for a total of 38 mins 12 seconds, while Paranoid hits in at 42 mins 7 seconds, so once again Paranoid takes the round.
Black Sabbath 1, Paranoid 3

Paranoid hits out again; Black Sabbath ducks but is unable to avoid the blow.

Now let's go track-by-track for length comparisons:
Black Sabbath Track 1 (“Black Sabbath)” 6:20
Paranoid Track 1 (“War pigs”) 7:57
Black Sabbath loses out to Paranoid's first track, so we have a score of Black Sabbath 1, Paranoid 4
Black Sabbath Track 2 (“The Wizard”) 4:24
Paranoid Track 2 (“Paranoid”) 2:53
Black Sabbath starts fighting back! Black Sabbath 2, Paranoid 4
Black Sabbath Track 3 (“Behind the walls of sleep”) 3:37
Paranoid Track 3 (“Planet caravan”) 4:32
Paranoid takes it again! Black Sabbath 2, Paranoid 5
Black Sabbath Track 4 (“NIB”) 6:08
Paranoid Track 4 (“Iron man”) 6:00
Black Sabbath edges it, just!
Black Sabbath 3, Paranoid 5. Closing the gap, but can the debut maintain this momentum or will it slip behind again?
Black Sabbath Track 5 (“Evil woman”) 3:25
Paranoid Track 5 (“Electric funeral”) 4:53
Paranoid hits back! Black Sabbath 3, Paranoid 6!
Black Sabbath Track 6 (“Sleeping village”) 3:46
Paranoid Track 6 (“Hand of doom”) 7:08
Clear winner for Paranoid, taking the score to
Black Sabbath 3, Paranoid 7
Black Sabbath track 7 (“Warning”) 10:08
Paranoid Track 7 (“Rat salad”) 2:30
Big fightback from Black Sabbath as it crushes Paranoid with its final track! Even if the seventh AND last tracks on Paranoid were added together they would STILL be shorter than the epic closer on the debut.
Final score after the individual tracks:
Black Sabbath 4, Paranoid 7
Although Paranoid has the extra track it has already scored its hit for having more tracks, so it's unfair to compare “Fairies wear boots” to an nonexistent track on the debut.

Paranoid is now raining blows down on Black Sabbath, which seems unable to avoid them and defend itself. Could this contest be over before it even begins?

Next up: Hit Singles. Yeah, we know where this is going don't we?
Black Sabbath, despite being the emergence of both this band and doom, indeed heavy metal itself, has absolutely no hit singles on it, while Paranoid scored a big top ten hit with the title track, giving it a clear victory here.

Black Sabbath 4, Paranoid 8

Another uppercut takes Black Sabbath and its eyes are a little bleary now.

But let's forget hit singles. Sabbath were never a band who were about chart hits. Which of the albums has the most Sabbath standards on it? Let's take a look.

With one track less, Black Sabbath is probably not in the greatest position, and other than the title track and NIB, I think that's it, two tracks. Whereas Paranoid has of course the title, “War pigs” and “Iron man”, so again it takes the prize.
Black Sabbath 4, Paranoid 9

Seems like Black Sabbath is about to go down...

How about Album Sales? Which of the two albums shifted the most units? Well, Black Sabbath was possibly a two-edged sword: first, nobody had really heard anything like this before, so it was unanticipated and some people might have wondered about buying it, whereas by the time Paranoid rolled around almost eight months later, excitement would have been at fever pitch, and everyone who had bought, or wanted the debut would buy the new album. Add to that the chart impact of the title track going to number four and it was likely that Paranoid reached more new fans than the debut had. It looks like this could be another bloodbath!

Well, not quite. Paranoid does get it, but Black Sabbath does not disgrace itself. The latter sold 1.6 million copies, while the debut could (only) manage one million. So again, Paranoid gets it.

Black Sabbath 4, Paranoid 10

A vicious punch to the chest, Black Sabbath is winded, legs shaky...

How about Status? Surely both albums went at least Gold, if not Platinum? Let's see; Black Sabbath Platimun in both the USA and the UK, Paranoid Platinum in Canada (sounds like the name of a prog rock band!), Quadruple Platinum in the USA and SIX TIMES Platinum in the UK! Oh yeah, Paranoid knocks it out of the park here! No contest.

Black Sabbath 4, Paranoid 11

A sneaky little rabbit punch almost floors Black Sabbath, but it keeps its feet and the ref sees the illegal move, orders both fighters back to their corners for a minute. Gratefully, Black Sabbath sucks in breath and spits out teeth.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Urban Hat€monger ?

I'd take Volume 4 over both of them, faults and all.

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Trollheart

ROUND TWO!

How about Album Covers? Well Black Sabbath wins it easily here: a dark, scary, somewhat ambiguous picture that manages to be both evil and harmless at once, while with Paranoid there's an out-of-focus blurred shot of some guy with a sword. Get in!
Black Sabbath 5, Paranoid 11

Black Sabbath comes out swinging at the bell, surprising an overconfident Paranoid, which thought its opponent down and out. Paranoid reels back, unaccustomed to taking punches, and Black Sabbath presses home its advantage.

Producer? No, the same producer (Rodger Bain) worked on both albums, so it's a no-score draw, leaving the overall total unchanged. What else?
Let's pit the Opening Tracks against each other, then the Closing Tracks. Opener on Black Sabbath is of course “Black Sabbath”, and how can you win against that? Well, Paranoid has “War pigs”, so it's closer than you would think. But for sheer impact upon the world of heavy metal and for those scary, disturbing but wonderful first three notes that heralded the birth of Heavy Metal, Black Sabbath has to get my vote.
Black Sabbath 6, Paranoid 11

Black Sabbath punches, ducks and dives, lands a few killer blows. Blood in its eyes has turned now to bloodlust, and it fights like a thing possessed. Unsure after all this time, and having anticipated an easy victory, Paranoid dances away...

Closers then? Black Sabbath has “Warning” while Paranoid has “Fairies wear boots”. I think this has to go to the underdog (at this moment) again, not only for the sheer epicity of the closer on the debut, but also the fact that the closer on Paranoid mentions fairies. Ugh!
Black Sabbath 7, Paranoid 11

Black Sabbath follows Paranoid around the ring, murder in its eyes and Paranoid, seeing the change in its opponent, flinches back, looking for an opportunity to get some blows in. But Black Sabbath's defence is good and Paranoid cannot land a single punch. The crowd rises to its feet, suddenly cheering the underdog. Those who have bet on Paranoid sulk grumpily or exhort the opponent to make a fight of it!

Lyrical Content is very important. On Black Sabbath we have a song about, possibly, Satan being chosen or something, the antichrist maybe? Who the hell knows? But it's dark and unnerving. Then we have a song about a wizard, nightmares and then the devil getting married? Followed up with a really pastoral little lyric about, well, a sleeping village and ending on the big heavy broken love affair in “Warning”. Mind you, they do have to lose points for having a cover version on their first album, so let's score the tracks out of 10 for lyrics, where 10 is a great and different and interesting lyric, and 1 is pure crap.

“Black Sabbath” 10 (obviously)
“The wizard” 8
“Behind the wall of sleep” 8
“NIB” 10
“Evil woman” 1
“Sleeping village” 10 (I award it such a high mark because it's so unexpected and so simple, yet it works so well. It's the last thing you'd expect to hear Ozzy singing about on this dark album of dark albums)
“Warning” 7 (It's a little cliched, though not too much)

So that's a total, out of 70, of 54. Not bad. Now how about its rival?

Start off with “War pigs”, totally class anti-war song, followed up by the title track, with warning of manic depression and possibly suicide, then “Planet caravan” earns points for being totally different and a real change of pace, before we hit another classic, the superb “Iron man”, about, well, a man of iron. A giant man of iron, of course. And that's just the A side!
So, scores then:
“War pigs” 10 (of course)
“Paranoid” 10
“Planet caravan” 8
“Iron man” 10
“Electric funeral” 8
“Hand of doom” 8
“Rat sald” 6
“Fairies wear boots” 5
A grand total of 65 out of 80.

So it's very close, and I'm going to call it a draw. However, rather than last time, with a nil-nil deal, I think both albums have earned their points here so we'll make it a 1-1 score. That leaves the current standings at
Black Sabbath 8, Paranoid 12

Caught in a clinch, each fighter strives to best the other, but neither can land a blow. After some moments, the ref blows his whistle and forces them apart. The two opponents eye each other, warily, tired, but determined, and return to their corners.

ROUND THREE!

Now we come to what I like to call “Off-tracks”, that is, tracks that seem out of place or that don't quite look or sound like they belong on the album.
Black Sabbath has the cover version “Evil woman”, but everything else is pretty cool. I would venture to say “Sleeping village” is an off-track though. Paranoid on the other hand has really only “Planet caravan”, so it looks like Paranoid takes it again.

Black Sabbath 8, Paranoid 13

Determined to go on the offensive, Paranoid launches at Black Sabbath, a flurry of blows landing about its head and shoulders. No, not the shampoo!

Chart Positions you say? We don' need no steenking chart positions! Ah but we do, and here we find Black Sabbath topping out in the US at 23, UK at 8 while Paranoid does considerably better, making 12 in the US and topping the charts in the UK, giving Sabbath their first number one album. Again, Paranoid wins this round.

Black Sabbath 8, Paranoid 14

Suddenly, Paranoid sees an opening and darts in! Its newfound confidence its undoing, Black Sabbath is taken by surprise and reels back.

What about Critical Acclaim? Both albums were more or less slated originally, but time was much kinder to them and eventually both were recognised as important, even vital albums in the heavy metal genre, if not in fact the very first ones which could be properly termed as heavy metal. Who did best, or did anyone, with the passage of time?

Black Sabbath: panned on its release, later hailed as the coming of heavy metal and the album that started it all. Paranoid pretty much the same. Calling it a no-score draw here.

More dancing, more feinting, the crowd get restless as neither fighter commits to an attack, watching their opponent, waiting, waiting...

Are there any Bonus Tracks, or were any Special Editions released? Let's see... looks like there were three special editions of Black Sabbath, one released in 1986 with a bonus track (a live version of “Tomorrow's dream”) one CD reissue in 1996 with “Wicked world” as a bonus and two reissues in 2009, with separate and different tracklistings for both the European and US editions. Yeah, there seems to have been some other reissue in 2004, but the only “bonus track” on that was “Evil woman”, which wasn't apparently included on the original US version, so I'm ignoring that one.

Paranoid seems to have had just the one reissue, in 2009, and although there are extra tracks they're all just alternate versions of the original songs. Another 1986 reissue did however feature a live version of “Wicked world”. Nevertheless, I think Black Sabbath gets this one.


Black Sabbath 9, Paranoid 14

WHAM! Black Sabbath suddenly launches an attack, catching Paranoid off guard. Paranoid staggers under the unexpected blow, legs wobbling. The crowd begin baying for blood again. Men rise to their feet. People nervously think about the "sure thing" they bet on before the fight...


Let's go back to Track-by-track Analysis and look at the actual Structure of the albums. Though few if any tracks can be said to be bad, did the positioning of each work in the overall context of the album? For Black Sabbath you have the title track followed by “The wizard”, which is perfect, then “Behind the wall of sleep”, which is mostly more a kind of hard rock/blues boogie, but fits in well, and then NIB, again perfect. Unfortunately then comes the cover of “Evil woman”, which breaks the pattern, then the quiet reflective “Sleeping village” establishes a semblance of eerie quiet before “Warning” brings it all to a crushing close. So other than the cover, pretty much perfect.

Paranoid couldn't start better, with “War pigs” then the title track, with the flow broken nicely by the lush “Planet caravan”, and followed up by “Iron man”. One hundred percent perfect first side. The doomy and perfectly titled “Electric funeral” is a natural successor to “Iron man”, with “Hand of doom” keeping everything dark and bleak until “Rat salad” provides some light relief as the tempo increases and we get a blues rocker with some Santana in there, and closing on “Fairies wear boots”, great track with some fine humour.

So Paranoid has no bad tracks, in terms of flow, whereas Black Sabbath does suffer slightly from the inclusion of the cover, and therefore loses out this round.

Black Sabbath 9, Paranoid 15

Spurred on by the crowd's taunts, Paranoid steels itself and launches into an attack which takes its opponent by surprise. Black Sabbath was beginning to think there was no fight left in Paranoid, but now it's the one reeling back under a hail of punches...

Now we go to see how many tracks from each appear on Sabbath Compilations. Although there are eight collections in all, “The Dio years” covers, well, the Dio years, so we'll leave that one out. Also “The Sabbath stones” features material the earliest of which was released in 1983. That's out too. Not to mention that “Black Box” is a collection of every Sabbath album in its entireity up to 1978. Oh, and “The rules of Hell” is yet another Dio compilation, leaving us with four compilations to consider.

We sold our soul for Rock'n'roll (1976):- Black Sabbath, 5 tracks; Paranoid, 4 tracks.
Symptom of the universe (2002):- Black Sabbath, 5 tracks; Paranoid, 4 tracks


Greatest Hits (2006):- Black Sabbath, 3 tracks; Paranoid, 3 tracks
Greatest Hits (2009):- Black Sabbath, 4 tracks; Paranoid, 4 tracks

For some reason the collection I have, the cool one with the painting “El triumfo de la muerte” on it, is not included. Seems it's not an official version or something. Boo. Anyway, what have we gleaned from this then? Well, two of the collections offer equal space to both albums, using four tracks from each, but where there's a difference it's Black Sabbathh that gets the nod, with 5 tracks from it on two compilations whereas its rival only gets 4. So Black Sabbath takes this one.

Black Sabbath 10, Paranoid 15

After a brief and sudden flurry of attack Paranoid is driven back by the fury of an opponent growing in confidence. Black Sabbath has it on the ropes now.

The last criterion I can explore is how various magazines, websites and even personal lists rate the two albums against each other. So I've gone trawling the web and the results are below. Some rate one album over the other, while some don't rate one at all while rating the other. I'll tally up the total at the end.


VHI Top 40 Metal songs: "Iron man" and "Paranoid"

Kerrang! Top 100 metal albums: Paranoid 39, Black Sabbath 31

Metal Hammer same: Paranoid 9, Black Sabbath 13

Guitar World Best 10 metal albums: Paranoid 1 , Black Sabbath not there

Some loser on RYM: Black Sabbath 46, Paranoid 13 (He also has “Close to the fucking edge” on his list!!!

Another loser (Seriously? Marillion? Queen??) Black Sabbath 56, Paranoid 9

Metal rules.com --- Black Sabbath 17, Paranoid 24

metal descent.com: Black Sabbath 8, Paranoid 1

Village Voice: ten metal albums you must hear before you die: Black Sabbath 1, Paranoid nowhere

Vinyrevinyl: essential metal albums: Paranoid 3, Black Sabbath nowhere

Digitaldreamdoor: 100 best heavy metal guitar riffs: Black Sabbath 2, Paranoid 4

Music radar.com: Black Sabbath 37, Paranoid 7

So altogether then we have a total amount of votes from these lists --- where one was placed above the other or one did not feature while the other did – of Black Sabbath: 4
Paranoid: 8
So Paranoid clearly gets it here, leaving the current standings at
Black Sabbath 10, Paranoid 16

Thought to be on the verge of defeat, Paranoid finds reserves of strength from somewhere and fights back, pushing Black Sabbath towards the other side of the ring. The crowd goes wild. THIS is what they came to see! What a contest!

One more thing to factor in; well, two really. Impact on the genre/music as a whole has to go to Black Sabbath, so it now stands at
Black Sabbath 11, Paranoid 16

Black Sabbath rallies, throwing a series of punches at its opponent, who moves back...

and finally, and definitely least, your own snipings on my thread about Metal Month II, wherein the general consensus was that, of those who bothered to vote, Black Sabbath came out on top by 4-2, so one more for the debut.
Black Sabbath 12, Paranoid 16.

... onto the ropes, where Black Sabbath continues to pound on its opponent. The fight has turned completely 180 now. Are fortunes, thought safe, about to be lost at the death?

But no: the extra points count in Paranoid's favour and it rallies its strength, forcing its legs to bear it up and deliver a series of pummeling punches that floors Black Sabbath.

Eight ... nine ... TEN! You're OUT!


So we have a clear winner at the end. Although Black Sabbath took an early pounding and looked likely to be left choking on Paranoid's dust, it rallied well and by the end there's not that much separating the two. But in the end there can only be one, and though I don't personally agree with the result, science cannot be ignored and this is what it says:
The winner!

Not quite by a knockout but still by a vote of 16-12.

Note: If anyone thinks there is some other method I could have used, or some criteria I did not employ, well it's too late now! I honestly went through absolutely every aspect I could think of of each album to try to make sure that I covered every possible, um, possibility. I don't think there's anything more I could have done. No doubt those who agree with the verdict will nod and say justice was done, whereas those who believe (like me) that the debut is far superior will shake their fists and cry “Fix!” But in the end, it was simply a case of letting the facts do the talking, and this is their unavoidable conclusion.

Whether or not you agree with the outcome though, one thing I think we can all agree on is that these are two of the finest and most seminal albums ever to grace the genre, and for Sabbath to have recorded both in the same year is, quite simply, a phenomenal feat that I believe was never equalled.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

The Batlord

No you haven't. Warlord have a dark, dense atmosphere that just makes all of their songs sound epic. Warlord is the sound of the end of the world.

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Isbjørn

Popularity isn't relevant when it comes to quality, and Paranoid is overrated in my opinion. Also, long albums aren't necessarily better than short ones. Reign in Blood is a short, but effective brutality attack.

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Frownland

Wait, so you've been spending half of metal month whining about how long a lot of the tracks on the albums are but you award a point to the longest track in the track to track length comparison?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Trollheart

And so it begins...
Like I said, I based THAT section on a comparison of how long each track was, as an indicator of value for money. It's not perfect, but how could it be? Also, the only long tracks I whined about were on albums I did not enjoy. If you don't like something then the longer the track is the worse it will be to you. I never whined about Marillion's "Grendel" or Pendragon's "Wishing well" or It Bites's "Once around the world". I don't whine about long tracks, just long tracks I don't like.

I don't think I whine, do I? Do I?

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Trollheart

When did I ever say that? In any comparison of this sort you have to take popularity into account, though it was by no means the only criterion used, as you can see.
You know, to paraphrase Urban to me a day or so ago: all the work that went into that, all the time spent on it, all the data collected and all the factors involved, and THIS is all you got from it? Bitching about two small areas which, while certainly relevant, did not by themselves determine the outcome. I loked at as many different angles as I could, tried taking into account every aspect of each album, and came to my logical conclusion --- which I don't agree with, but it is what it is.

You know what? If you two are so smart, try doing it yourselves. It was not easy I can tell you.

Also, at Frown: remember when I reviewed the Sigh album? I was worrying about "Slaughterhouse suite", which ran for 15 minutes, but when I got to it I loved it, and didn't want it to end. I take a little offence at your contention that I bitched about the longer songs. I think I gave everything a fair listen, skipped virtually nothing and in some cases completely changed my mind on the longer tracks, in some did not. It's all relative anyway.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Trollheart

It's always the same, innit? You mention a band, particularly a heavy rock or metal one, and someone who's totally clueless about them says “Oh yeah, aren't they the ones who did [insert name of hit single here]?” People like them think this is the only song the band had, or at least the only one that's known outside of the genre, and sadly sometimes it's true. Sabbath's “Paranoid”. “Motorhead's “Ace of spades”. Metallica's “Enter sandman” and Fleshgrind's popular chart-topper, “Duct taped and raped”. Nah just kidding: that just missed the top forty!

But the point is valid, and it doesn't only hold true for metal bands of course, which is why this is the “Metal edition”, but as we're in Metal Month II we're concentrating on only metal bands, and though this band might be considered more hard rock than heavy metal, they can certainly engage a headbang or two.

(Don't fear) The Reaper
Blue Oyster Cult
Released July 1976
From the album "Agents of fortune"
Backed with "Tattoo vampire"
Chart position: 12 (US) 16 (UK)

They've been around since 1972 and have fourteen albums, have sold 24 million albums and had a major influence on some serious names in the genre, yet they are and always will be remembered for their hit single from their fourth album, the classic “(Don't fear) the Reaper”. While it is a fantastic song and has a superbly hooky melody, it's sad in a way that many people will love this song to death (pun intended) but go no further in their exploration of the band. It's the “big hit single syndrome”, the event that, while it can make a band and open them up to new and unimagined audiences --- to say nothing of drastically improving both their market share and their personal bank balances --- can end up dogging them for the rest of their career, as they either try to top that single or measure everything else they have done after that against it.

Even if they don't, and their fans certainly don't, mainstream success after the big single may elude them, as the record-buying public frown on anything that's different from the single and wait for its successor, which may never come. Worse, the band may try to specifically write something that recalls the single in the hope of regaining that chart success, and wooing the fickle chart hunters again. Most times, this effort is doomed to failure, and could very well end up alienating their longtime fans as the band are accused of selling out.

Thankfully, Blue Oyster Cult have never done this: while obviously delighted with the success of “(Don't fear) the Reaper”, they have continued on their merry way for a further thirty-eight years and ten albums and, while they have not repeated the chart success or cult status of that single, they would go on to have two other hits. Nevertheless, when people speak of BOC they do not talk of “Burnin' for you” or even “Godzilla”. To those outside the fanbase, there's only one song that encapsulates the band, and perhaps it's no bad thing. It is an amazing song, after all.

The lyrical content of the song has been drastically misinterpreted though, with some people taking it as an anthem or even encouragement for suicide. When writer Buck Dharma discovered this he was shocked, explaining that he wrote the song merely as a result of getting older, and realising there was no need to fear death: it finds us all in the end. He did not, he categorically and rather worriedly stated, write it as a “blueprint for suicide” and it should not be taken as such. The song has passed into popular culture, being featured in every movie about death from “Halloween” to “Scream”, every other documentary that deals with death or the macabre, and was even used by urban artist Banksy for one of his installations.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018