TheBig3

Then this is it for us. You've failed the only litmus test I have. Good knowing you.

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TheBig3

There is a flap every now and again about whether or not MusicBanter is in decline. People wonder if its glory days are behind it, and whether we should all find greener pastures. My concern is if we’ve hit the ceiling.

Back when the real *******s still roamed around here, you could get in some 12-page fights that generally ended in personal attacks and snark, but at least it held your attention. All due credit to the Mod Squad, we’ve eliminated the *******s (as we should), but we haven’t brought in any heavy weights. I might be the cranky old man in the corner, but every time I look at the “new posts” offerings all I see are a bunch of Lounge-oriented questions that spawn endless debate. I could rant for days about why they go on, but lets just suffice it to say that they happen.

I wonder now if this is the limit for MB. Can we move beyond? Are we destined to be a destination for the latch-key kids bored ambition? Troll bait waiting to attacked: Too well modded to be ruined by them. Not intellectual enough to drive them away. How many more The Virgins should we endure? Last night I went to Digital Dream Door for the first time, just to see what the story was. I don’t think I’ll ever make an account there – too many *******s we’ve banned from MB still exist over there, and from the stories I’ve heard, its too undermodded for any real discussion to occur. All I did while I was there was poke around. I could tell in a second what type of community it was. The front page had some ridiculous Ad saying something about “Rock, Blues, and Soul” or something like that. Flags were being thrown immediately: “This sounds like it was made by a 16 year old who still thinks ‘Clapton is God.’”

I immediately went to find the one thing no rebellious 16 year old rock fan can tolerate. If this place was worth a damn, it would have a Country Forum. Shockingly, it did. But just as I’d suspected, I think it had 7 threads, 3 of which were stickied and the unstickied thread with the most posts (a grand total of 3) was a “100 Greatest Country Artists of All Time Thread.” The first one on that list – the best country artist of all time according to DDD’s posters – was Johnny Cash. The second post in that thread was shocked Carrie Underwood wasn’t listed. It was just as I’d imagined.

I’m telling you this story because, as much as I rage against the current state of MusicBanter (and its certainly not the new music bastion it was) its at least got a rich history of debate. You can find a good discussion out there for most bands that had existed prior to now. It appears as if our main competitor doesn’t even have good past debates. I came to MusicBanter roughly 7 years ago for a few reasons.

1. My old forum was closed by the management. They’ve decided to be simply a news site for ****ty music. You can feel free to check out Shoutweb if you want, but I haven’t been in a very long time, and no bands they talked about then made me want to go back.
2. The second reason I came because I remember asking a friend “Hey, do you think Paz’s involvement with Zwan means she’s out of A Perfect Circle?”
I think he asked me if I was speaking English and I knew I had to find people who were a little more savvy about the world of music. I still can’t tell you 3 bands Loose Lips Sink Ships listens to, and I feel like he’s been here for at least 3 years.

For much of my time at MB, its been very productive, useful, engaging, and fun. But today everythings “what are we drinking?” or “lets take photos of ourselves so we can eFlirt with people we’ll never see.” I’ll admit it, I’m depressed. I think maybe I’m too old for the game, maybe I need more than MB can offer. I’ve searched for other forums and I can’t seem to find a damn thing. They’re either too genre oriented or just out-and-out ****ty.

So this is me sending out an S.O.S for any passing ships that can take me back to the mainland. To somewhere they speak my language. To somewhere they still know what exploration is like. MB these days is my Easter Island. Its filled with stone-faced inhabitants unflinching in their interest, and too silent about what it is in the first place.

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djchameleon

anytime someone mentions sending out an S.O.S.

I think of this song and I must listen to it.



If funny that you mention this topic sometime last week, I was going to post an open letter in the spill your guts thread to all the whiners and complainers that are going around like chicken little screaming the sky is falling.

As you mentioned you were at a forum before joining MB and you should know about forum life.

Forums go through periods where people keep harping on about it's decline/demise.

I feel like people either outgrow it and should move on or try to help the forum they once loved return to a state where they can be content. If you are going to continue to complain about it why not, contribute a little more.

If you don't feel like contributing then maybe it's time for a break or to move on permanently. There are times when people just out grow certain forums and I feel like you are at that stage.

I don't get how people can't see why there are more lounge posts than music posts. The lounge posts are easier to get into because it's a broad general topic being discussed as opposed to the obscure band that you heard and decided to post about in the avant garde section thinking there are other fans that will appreciate it as much as you do but they don't.

There are some people that will listen to said band and decide that they don't like it or some that will just write it off completely because of the genre that it is in. You might turn one or two people onto this band that you love so much and they will in turn love it as much as you do but that's not going to happen all of the time.

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Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.

TheBig3

For one reason or another, critics today seem to be wholly enveloped with the concept of negative reviews. Once upon a time, climbing out of the yellow journalism that existed since the printing press had existed; a heavy weight was put on objectivity. This genius position accounts for much of the boring reporting you see in newspapers still today. It also, at one time, had the New York Times reaching out to the Klu Klux Klan for “their side of the story” when there was a lynching in town. I don’t know who finally woke them up to notion that this was madness, but Churchill once famously said “I fail to be impartial between the fire brigade and the fire.” By then, objectivity dominated the American media.

But today criticism is ruled by the negative. I would be lead to conclude that **** trait is picked up from academia where in an assault upon something means a well thought out understanding and command of the subject matter. To be more direct about it, it’s easy to show the failings of a new piece of art by comparing it to the masters of the craft. No painter is Van Gogh, no musician is Dylan, no writer is Shakespeare, and no Director is Orson Wells. This not only shows the critic has taste to the reading public, but also shows that what is being presented is terrible in comparison. There is a crisis of confidence in the young critical community.

For one thing, if you haven’t got the confidence to back up your intellectual chops, you shouldn’t be reviewing anything up to and including restaurant reviews on Yelp. But the important point I mean to convey here is this: If the modern day critic should aspire to anything, including an expression of one’s own intelligence, it must do so through praise, positivity, and, in the worst situation, a salvaging of the few decent points. To invent a word, we need more complimentarianism.

All bold statements should be followed with reason, so here goes. Negativity is at this point old hat. Theres nothing new, theres nothing deliberately valuable there, we know how things, without the blessing of time, stack up against the very inspiration to countless generations. What we need today is a critic willing to sit in the fire of terrible offerings from artists of all stripes, who’s willing to trail blaze through the thick grasses of rote, emotionless output and come back wounded, bleeding, and bruised with reports of any signs of life. This is where critics are not only needed today, but where they can most solidly advance the art of a conveyance of quality.

The enduring benefit here should appear to all interests within the communities who hope to see an advancement. Encouragement of the vagrant class being the only downside, a generally positive outlook has going for it an inalienable ability to murder any trends of snotty illuminati in their cradles. The critical community tends to be cut from a similar fabric. To play to an interest, which in this case might be called “classics” but by any other name is still a preference, drives a movement toward groupthink and hivemind. If we should drive ourselves willfully against any trend it would be those. If not here, where? If the artistic community of Earth cannot find within itself an urge to move in a direction that fosters creativity, because we can rest assured that the insurance agencies of Western Connecticut won’t be doing it for us.

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TheBig3

When I first heard Springsteen's Radio Nowhere, I couldn't appreciate the song for what it was. I had been in love with a woman from New Jersey, and I could only think of her when it came on. She's getting married this year, and I've told myself I need to move on. The song happened to pop up on my iPod this morning, and while I still think of her, for the first time I heard the song as well.

I don't know if there has been a tighter, stronger song that doubled as a love letter to all that was good and holy in America. Who should be shocked that Bruce was the one deliver it. For the purposes of this writing, I think its appropriate to use the lyrics:

Since America existed, there has been a sense that anyone could be lost, or get lost here (intentionally or otherwise). As we've moved beyond the travails of a frontier nation, getting lost here often meant being without a place, and that generally has to do with love. Its very obvious that a romantic interest could be plugged in here. But there is also the love-lorn aspect of an America increasingly dying do to technologies sprawling reach.

Not only can we, as a people, no longer get off the grid, get lost, and get gone, but a connection seems to be constant at this point. Its hard to split the concept in twain, but this isn't just an inability to recreate yourself, its an inability to never get away from ourselves. You can imagine this character singing thinking to himself "Stop ****ing calling me, e-mailing me, and wtf is twitter?"

No one wants to hear another Luddite stand-up routine. It was never, never clever to make fun of social-media because people were updating how bored they were (that's on you, friends. If your friends do that, you're probably boring yourself.)

The song also does hammer harshly on the dehumanization of people. And here, The Boss might also be talking about some of his own past. Could the dark hole be "Tunnel of Love" a monumentally horrible album, an album the signals a period where Bruce was living in California, dating super models and living the life of just another rock star? Could this be a condemnation of the rote through self-criticism?
Or maybe its a comment on the prevailing insincerity in modern music. This song, on an album that was a return to the E Street Band, could he be suggesting that there is too much affect and posture in todays music? Its possible, since the solo in this song comes from a Saxophone, which harkens back to the 1950's rock scene, when a hot sax solo was obligatory.

Whatever it means, like all good music/art, it should effect you differently than me. But as someone still fascinated by what this continent can do to a person, its a stark reminder that we're not alone in our constant wanderlust, and that we should remember that connections can be made beyond the keyboards and +1's of the world wide web.

Don't be afraid to get lost, friends.

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TheBig3

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Mrd00d

This is the best music forum on the 'net. I used to go to the music hall on my marijuana forum because I was looking for a music centered community with more going on and MB is better, and better than any of the alternative music forums I passed over. Ebb and flow of forum life. I wish there was more active discussion here about everything. I check MB twice a day and can easily never miss a post by anyone ever, and I come back for more updates and there really aren't any. On the weed forum, at least there are tons of threads created daily in the music hall, even if it's not modded very well and there are hundreds of repeat threads. It's all we got, so let's try to be content and hope for more activity. All we can do is keep making threads and talking and hope someone cares enough to reply. I feel like a good majority of my best made posts go by uncommented upon, but I press forward onto a new topic hoping someone will read it a few months or years later and enjoy it... Happy 7th Big3...

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TheBig3

What do you get if you take a cowboy, a fairytale, an alcoholic, a meth head, and a 1930's leftist policy book?

Whatever the **** this is. God damn brilliant. I imagine this is what Fisherman sing to one another when their blasted at 3 am out at sea.

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TheBig3

Since everyones sandy vagina and bunched panties can't handle a little hyperbole these days, i'm going to be an ******* in my own journal.

Music fans have made me hate Johnny Cash.

I used to like him, I have albums, I download singles. As a huge Tom Waits fan, the Waits-written "Down there by the Train" is a masterpiece in my eyes. But if I have to listen to one more snob tell me the only country he likes is "Waylan, Willie, Cash, and Hank" I might ****ing go on a killing spree in Williamsburg.

If I'm being honest, I think when people say this they mean "I like Cash because he covered NIN, and I hate country because they're a bunch of racist hicks who bomb abortion clinics." No ones ever said that to me, but its how I always hear it. I own Johnny Cash's gospel album. I'm guessing no one who "like" Johnny Cash listens to "It was Jesus." Again, just a guess.

But I shouldn't complain. Times are getting better. At the time that NIN cover happened I remember people trying to tell me Cash was "really more rock than country." I'll give you I have some crazy rage issues (I have standards, sorry you're half assed) but how could you not want to punch someone like that in the throat? I mean, what the ****? Did you hear the one ****ing song before you decided you were enough of an expert to comment on someones history? To be fair, he did listen to that one song 100 times. Thats like listening to 10 albums!

I was recently at my girlfriends brothers house and he told me, in a discussion over music (he's a big...uh, lets call it hair metal fan), Johnny Cash was the only country he liked. So there it is. Johnny Cash appealing to the Ratt/Ozzy/Judas Priest base.

I think what we should do, as a forum, an album for people who think they like Johnny Cash. Not just as service to those folks, but as a service to those of us who actually listen to music - not singles - and have a real problem with these casual, drive-thru fans who feel competent enough to pontificate about the very sound of an artist, and the very communal understanding of the music community.

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Trollheart

Hey Big3, happy seventh anniversary!
I like your style, and I feel your pain. I too hate when the lyric becomes secondary to the song, and you're right: the lines you quoted make no sense, but then people these days (the majority at least) don't care too much about lyrics, which is why so many sub-sub-sub-par artistes can get away with simply sh1t songs, as long as the "kids" can dance to them. Pathetic, really.

But one thing that annoys me about lyric usage is the employment of the quick or easy rhyme. I'm talking about the maybe/baby, school/fool, girl/world idea, where anything will do as long as it rhymes. I mentioned a while back in my review of Heart's "Brigade" that I hated the lyric in "All I wanna do is make love to you" (penned by Mutt Lange, no less, so there's no excuse!), where he rhymes stupid lines like "We found a hotel/It was a place he knew well" and so on. If you're going to write a lyric, take pride in it and try to make it as interesting and as original as possible.

That's why I love Fish (Marillion) lyrics: they're just so, well, poetic. I also often prefer lyrics that DON'T rhyme, but scan well. You know Waits' "9th and Hennepin"? None of those lines rhyme, but my god do they paint a picture! Speaking of Waits, I wonder that you may have tried to "convert" starrynight with the wrong Waits songs. "Sixteen shells"? I would have gone with something more along these lines

or maybe this

or even this


So much of Waits' music is inaccessible to those who know no better, you really have to lead the newbies in slowly...

As to country music, well I know virtually nothing about Johnny Cash, although I have it on good authority that he once fell into a ring of fire, and by all accounts, it burned, burned, burned.
Seriously, I know OF him, but not enough of his music to try to pretend I know whether he's more country than rock (the former, obviously) but I do like some country. I try, you know: I started watching Willie Nelson's 70th birthday special, or something. It was ok for about 15 minutes, but then it got too twee for my tastes, so I shut it off.

I do like some country artistes, like Crystal and Emmylou, but probably my favourite would be Nanci Griffith. I also like the sort of rock/country crossovers like Dwight Yoakam and the mighty Steve Earle. But in general I'm fairly clueless when it comes to those two popular music forms, country and western. Thing is, I KNOW it, and accept it, and don't try to pretend otherwise.

As for, for want of another word, banter on the site, yes I too feel we're a little isolated. When I first started my journal I had high hopes, but the pressures of holding down a fulltime job while also looking after my disabled sister forced me not to be able to update, and I drifted away. It was only when I quit my job to look after her fulltime that I found I had a lot more free time on my hands, so about four months ago I had another shot at it, and although I don't get too many comments, the ones I do get are quite complimentary.

I was thinking at one stage, about two months in, about giving it up again, as maybe no-one was reading, but then I chanced to glance at the views, and saw there were about 2000 I think. These days it's getting closer to 7000, so at least someone is reading what I'm writing. I do get the odd comment from the likes of Jackhammer and Nonsubmissivewife that help perk me up when I feel it's maybe all for nothing, and they assure me that they read the journal regularly.

So I guess the moral there is, just cos no-one is talking to you doesn't mean your work isn't being appreciated. It certainly is, and I'l continue to talk to you via comments here, or if you prefer, on my own journal. Or both.

Keep your chin up, man.
And now, to cheer you up...

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018