This Film > That Film

TheCunningStunt · 01-19-2011, 03:36 PM

Spoilers for Mulholland Drive

I don't know why a film being ambiguous is a bad thing, I don't think a film necessarily has to be coherent or make sense.

I mean, on a technical level it's perfect. The whole presentation of the film is gorgeous.
The cinematography for most of the film is so dream like, and then the the tone of the film changes in the last bit of the film. The "10 minute narrative".

I didn't actually know it was originally a TV idea, but if it is then I think it's marvelous how it's been adapted for film. To me, the film makes perfect sense. It's basically Lost Highway - but a more polished, accomplished and developed version with more interesting characters.

I don't think every character in a film has to go somewhere. I don't see how having some characters totally unrelating to the plot makes the quality of the film lessen. That said, I don't remember too many characters being totally irrelevant except for the first scene with the thing appearing from the wall.

It's basically a film that's backwards. The first half is a dream sequence of repressed guilt, 'Betty' is actually Diane and 'Rita' is actually Camilla. Diane is the person having this dream. She has this dream because Camilla broke her heart by getting engaged to the film director, so she dreams that they're together and meeting for the first time. Happy and in love. She awakens when she hears the waitress' name is Diane. It stirs something inside of herself, and she dreams about herself being dead. Which means she feels empty without Camilla. It's strangely sprawling, and all over the place yet coherent at the same time. Definitely my favourite Lynch film, and even if you don't think it's a masterpiece like I do, I don't think anyone could say it's a terrible/bad film.

That said, Blue Velvet is Twin Peaks in film form and it's a masterpiece in itself. So I wouldn't have too many arguments if someone cited that as Lynch's best.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 01-19-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob.

David Cronenberg

Videodrome > Naked Lunch > eXistenZ > The Brood > Dead Ringers > A History Of Violence > Spider > The Fly > Scanners > Crash > Eastern Promises > Rabid > The Dead Zone

****, forgot about Cronenberg

Cronenberg:

Dead Ringers(****ing love the viscous dark humor) > Videodrome > Scanners > Naked Lunch > Spider > The Fly > A History of Violence(Good film, barely notice it's Cronenburg) > ExistenZ > Spider >>>>>> The Dead Zone

I should be watching Eastern Promises, and Crash very soon. Then possibly some of his early pre-Scanners films.

bob. · 01-19-2011, 05:52 PM

i have to say again that i really like every movie of his i've seen....except for The Dead Zone....i just wish he had done something to make it his own...much like Kubrick did with The Shining...his early stuff is pretty vile but well worth watching

Engine · 01-19-2011, 06:27 PM

I like The Dead Zone quite a bit. Actually your ranking looks all kinds of screwed up to me but I'll have to think / remember for a while before I can make my own Cronenberg list. But I also like all of them.

dankrsta · 01-21-2011, 06:29 AM

Oh yeah Cronenberg

David Cronenberg
Naked Lunch > Videodrome > Dead Ringers > eXistenZ > Spider > The Fly > The Brood > A History of Violence > Crash > Shivers > Scanners > The Dead Zone > M. Butterfly

I have to see Rabid and Eastern Promises.

Roman Polanski
The Tenant > Rosemary's Baby > Repulsion > Chinatown > Dance of the Vampires > The Pianist > Bitter Moon > Frantic > The Ninth Gate > Death and the Maiden > Oliver Twist

For someone who considers herself a fan of Polanski's movies I haven't seen some essential ones it seems, like Tess, The Tragedy of Macbeth and Knife in the Water. Hmmm...I have to fix that.

As for this discussion about Mulholland Dr. and Blue Velvet, here's my two cents:
Mulholland Dr. is flawed for the reasons Skaligojurah mentioned. That's why I consider Lost Highway to be a better film. But, those flaws are nowhere near so fatal to bring the film down to the level of TV pilot. Actually I would consider them to be minor, because the film as a whole more than makes up for them with many layers and a well of themes and ideas it opens with its fractured narrative full of associations. Those characters and plot lines that don't go anywhere could be seen as something that actually adds to an extent to the vividness of Lynch's world. It also makes up with a strong emotional pull carried especially by Naomi Watts, something that Lost Highway doesn't have for example, although I love it more. On the other hand Blue Velvet is a very good film, but only a good Lynch film, if you know what I mean. It's pretty straightforward, which is not a bad thing (I looove Straight Story for example), but I feel Twin Peaks series did a (slightly) better job at depicting hidden suburban evil. The thing is Lynch shines best when he lets his subconscience run loose, when he spontaneously searches for ideas through associations, like in dreams. That's why Mulholland Dr. is among his top films for me, along with Lost Highway, Inland Empire and Eraserhead.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 01-21-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrsta

Mulholland Dr. is flawed for the reasons Skaligojurah mentioned. That's why I consider Lost Highway to be a better film. But, those flaws are nowhere near so fatal to bring the film down to the level of TV pilot.

Actually, I meant that literally. It was a TV pilot that was intended to open up for a broader Twin Peaks-like series.

dankrsta · 01-21-2011, 02:23 PM

^Well, that's where I disagree with you. I know it was meant to be a TV pilot, hence the flaws. But, Mulholland Dr. as it is now doesn't have a form of a TV pilot anymore. It grew out of it, restructured, rethought so that everything ties with the new direction of the story. So, it's a real film now, whose only flaws (that I consider minor looking at the film as a whole) stem from the fact it wasn't made from scratch, but from a pilot to a potential TV series. On the other hand, this actually makes an interesting dynamic. SPOILER: The first part of the film, that's actually closer (in some parts probably identical) to the original pilot, is Diane's dream or how she sees herself as a star of her own film/TV series, an attempt to relive initial innocent Hollywood dream that has gone terribly wrong. Lynch will explore this relationship of different realities even further in Inland Empire (that can be seen as a film within a film within a film).

simplephysics · 01-28-2011, 10:27 AM

Star Wars

Return of the Jedi > A New Hope > Empire Strikes Back > Phantom Menace > Attack of the Clones >>>> Revenge of the Sith

The older ones are hard to put in order, I like them all for the most part.
Revenge of the Sith has one of the most disappointing endings I've ever seen. The helmet goes on and then click, you hear Darth Vader breath for the first time, one of the most awesome and memorable things about his character, and all we get is...

"Where's Padma?''
"......"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO"

TheCunningStunt · 01-28-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadnaught

Star Wars

Return of the Jedi > A New Hope > Empire Strikes Back

wat?

Empire Strikes Back > A New Hope > Return Of The Jedi

ThePhanastasio · 01-28-2011, 12:25 PM

Star Wars:

New Hope > Empire Strikes Back > Return of the Jedi >> Attack of the Clones >>> Revenge of the Sith > The Phantom Menace

01-19-2011, 03:36 PM	#31 (permalink)
TheCunningStunt love will tear you apart Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Manchester, UK. Posts: 5,107	Spoilers for Mulholland Drive I don't know why a film being ambiguous is a bad thing, I don't think a film necessarily has to be coherent or make sense. I mean, on a technical level it's perfect. The whole presentation of the film is gorgeous. The cinematography for most of the film is so dream like, and then the the tone of the film changes in the last bit of the film. The "10 minute narrative". I didn't actually know it was originally a TV idea, but if it is then I think it's marvelous how it's been adapted for film. To me, the film makes perfect sense. It's basically Lost Highway - but a more polished, accomplished and developed version with more interesting characters. I don't think every character in a film has to go somewhere. I don't see how having some characters totally unrelating to the plot makes the quality of the film lessen. That said, I don't remember too many characters being totally irrelevant except for the first scene with the thing appearing from the wall. It's basically a film that's backwards. The first half is a dream sequence of repressed guilt, 'Betty' is actually Diane and 'Rita' is actually Camilla. Diane is the person having this dream. She has this dream because Camilla broke her heart by getting engaged to the film director, so she dreams that they're together and meeting for the first time. Happy and in love. She awakens when she hears the waitress' name is Diane. It stirs something inside of herself, and she dreams about herself being dead. Which means she feels empty without Camilla. It's strangely sprawling, and all over the place yet coherent at the same time. Definitely my favourite Lynch film, and even if you don't think it's a masterpiece like I do, I don't think anyone could say it's a terrible/bad film. That said, Blue Velvet is Twin Peaks in film form and it's a masterpiece in itself. So I wouldn't have too many arguments if someone cited that as Lynch's best. __________________ I don't feel and I feel great. Last FM

01-19-2011, 05:52 PM	#33 (permalink)
bob. Still sends his reguards. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Trying to get out of the cat town.... Posts: 5,039	i have to say again that i really like every movie of his i've seen....except for The Dead Zone....i just wish he had done something to make it his own...much like Kubrick did with The Shining...his early stuff is pretty vile but well worth watching __________________ A kiss is the beginning of cannibalism. Reach out, pierce the fine fabric of the sheltering sky, take repose.

01-19-2011, 06:27 PM	#34 (permalink)
Engine air quote Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: pollen & mold Posts: 3,108	I like The Dead Zone quite a bit. Actually your ranking looks all kinds of screwed up to me but I'll have to think / remember for a while before I can make my own Cronenberg list. But I also like all of them. __________________ Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

01-21-2011, 06:29 AM	#35 (permalink)
dankrsta ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,776	Oh yeah Cronenberg David Cronenberg Naked Lunch > Videodrome > Dead Ringers > eXistenZ > Spider > The Fly > The Brood > A History of Violence > Crash > Shivers > Scanners > The Dead Zone > M. Butterfly I have to see Rabid and Eastern Promises. Roman Polanski The Tenant > Rosemary's Baby > Repulsion > Chinatown > Dance of the Vampires > The Pianist > Bitter Moon > Frantic > The Ninth Gate > Death and the Maiden > Oliver Twist For someone who considers herself a fan of Polanski's movies I haven't seen some essential ones it seems, like Tess, The Tragedy of Macbeth and Knife in the Water. Hmmm...I have to fix that. As for this discussion about Mulholland Dr. and Blue Velvet, here's my two cents: Mulholland Dr. is flawed for the reasons Skaligojurah mentioned. That's why I consider Lost Highway to be a better film. But, those flaws are nowhere near so fatal to bring the film down to the level of TV pilot. Actually I would consider them to be minor, because the film as a whole more than makes up for them with many layers and a well of themes and ideas it opens with its fractured narrative full of associations. Those characters and plot lines that don't go anywhere could be seen as something that actually adds to an extent to the vividness of Lynch's world. It also makes up with a strong emotional pull carried especially by Naomi Watts, something that Lost Highway doesn't have for example, although I love it more. On the other hand Blue Velvet is a very good film, but only a good Lynch film, if you know what I mean. It's pretty straightforward, which is not a bad thing (I looove Straight Story for example), but I feel Twin Peaks series did a (slightly) better job at depicting hidden suburban evil. The thing is Lynch shines best when he lets his subconscience run loose, when he spontaneously searches for ideas through associations, like in dreams. That's why Mulholland Dr. is among his top films for me, along with Lost Highway, Inland Empire and Eraserhead. __________________ Last.fm

01-21-2011, 02:23 PM	#37 (permalink)
dankrsta ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,776	^Well, that's where I disagree with you. I know it was meant to be a TV pilot, hence the flaws. But, Mulholland Dr. as it is now doesn't have a form of a TV pilot anymore. It grew out of it, restructured, rethought so that everything ties with the new direction of the story. So, it's a real film now, whose only flaws (that I consider minor looking at the film as a whole) stem from the fact it wasn't made from scratch, but from a pilot to a potential TV series. On the other hand, this actually makes an interesting dynamic. SPOILER: The first part of the film, that's actually closer (in some parts probably identical) to the original pilot, is Diane's dream or how she sees herself as a star of her own film/TV series, an attempt to relive initial innocent Hollywood dream that has gone terribly wrong. Lynch will explore this relationship of different realities even further in Inland Empire (that can be seen as a film within a film within a film). __________________ Last.fm

01-28-2011, 12:25 PM	#40 (permalink)
ThePhanastasio Killed Laura Palmer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ashland, KY Posts: 1,679	Star Wars: New Hope > Empire Strikes Back > Return of the Jedi >> Attack of the Clones >>> Revenge of the Sith > The Phantom Menace __________________ Phish: Studio Discography Reviewed 100 Albums I Heartily Recommend My last.fm It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken Perhaps they're better left unsung