It has better atmosphere, graphics, speed like you mentioned, enemy design, level design, and it literally invented/popularized deathmatch multiplayer. How is that shallow?

And unreal tournament 2004 is one of the best shooters out there. I love and still play that game to this day.

I ordered a new copy of Planescape: Torment because my discs are so scratched up, and it's been years since I played it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orment-box.jpg

I keep a Windows XP laptop just so I can play old Black Isle games like Baldur's Gate II and Torment.

Have you played the spiritual successor Torment tides of numenera? I've just started and I am really enjoying it so far.

I hadn't even heard of it until you mentioned it.

This. UT > the rest, back in the day at least.

I honestly don't understand this sentence. Shallow how ? They are fast paced twich shooters, what kind of depth were you expecting ?

You do know that both games have enhanced editions that allow them to run on modern day PC's right? I hope you didn't spend more than $16.99 on that copy of Planescape: Torment because that's what it costs right now with the Steam Summer Sale.

There are a ton of reasons, but I grow weary of this topic so I'm not going to fully divulge my thoughts here.

I like the shooting in DOOM II better, that's essentially why I prefer it. Quake started a trend emphasizing fast movement and open areas for FPS combat, to the detriment of shooting. Quake is all about tactical use of the level, not guns. It's an approach I disagree with. There's a lot of wasted space in Quake levels, and the pacing is worse too. Lots of rooms with only one or two enemies, instead of a dozen enemies in DOOM. Also the color scheme is horrible. Everything is brown.

At some point, this discussion will become subjective. I like Counter-Strike better than any of the Quake/UT games, because no amount of movement will make up for your crosshair being in the wrong place coming around a corner in CS, or not knowing the spread patterns, or not being able to get a headshot under pressure. I find it to be more intense.

I've played both. Both pale in comparison. I don't have any nostalgia for the 99 because I didn't play that one first.

'04 is just so much fun, plus the modding community for that game was insane. Killing Floor, Red Orchestra, the amount of excellent assault maps created for that game. I'm gonna go play it now....

This is where it comes down to taste. I found the pre built assault maps to be pretty meh, but the custom ones were awesome. I also loved the vehicles in the game. I can't bash the other games though, they are fun. I just find '04 to have the best overall experience.

Inside/Limbo coming together in a combo pack in a few months. Makes me excited cause those are allegedly two of the best indie games that have come out this decade. Also pre-ordered the Crash trilogy. My childhood should come alive by tonight.