I think Halo could be viewed the same way. In fact, I'd argue that Halo has changed far less in the 9 years it's been around then COD in the 7 I think it's been around. That's just my take on it, though.

Maybe I'm easy to please when it comes to video games (by your standards), but I definitely wouldn't call myself just casual.

The COD games themselves are indeed good games, but there's a very important difference between Halo and COD...

I'm a forum addict, I'll admit that now. I've accumulated some 5,000 posts on the Infinity Ward forums over the last 3 years. Bungie doesn't tally your posts but I imagine I've got at least 2,000 there. I'm also a part of the Epic Games forums, the Dice forums, etc etc etc. My point is, I've spent a lot of time at the hub of developer-player interaction for a lot of game franchises. From my experience I can plainly state that Infinity Ward doesn't give a flying f**k about their games. (It's tough to distinguish if, and how much so, this is Activision's fault, but that's another story...) The geometry glitch on COD4's map "Overgrown" was never fixed! The M9 silencer in MW2 was never fixed! (Among a plethora of other things) No beta, extremely barebones post-release patching, uninspired and overpriced DLC (15 bucks for 3 maps and 2 remakes? Really?)... some of these things may seem trivial, but as a whole, they really spell out the difference between developers who actually care and those who don't.

I mean... just watch one of the 5 or so Bungie ViDocs that was released before Reach came out. They exhibit people who are clearly making games because they love making games. They're enthusiastic and sincere. To me, as someone who invests a fair amount of his free time on enjoying the games that these people develop, it makes all the difference.

Modern Warfare 2 and Call of Duty 4 are good games, but both were plagued by stringent development cycles and insufficient testing/patching on all fronts. In my eyes, they are games that are clearly milking the videogaming audience for all it's worth. It's an insult to us all, really, just as most people on this forum find Nickelback an insult to music.

But I just want to be clear that this is NOT a COD vs. Halo affair. On the spectrum of developers and franchises that I'm at least fairly familiar with, Infinity Ward/COD happens to be towards the very bottom and Bungie happens to be towards the very top.

I've got an embarrassing amount of days playtime logged on 4/6 combined, and I fail too see how hype is relevant in determining the quality of a game. Regardless of how much money is poured into advertising for a game, the game will in fact play at quality-level X and have X number of issues and glitches. I think the COD formula is massive fun, but the games have so much damned wasted potential.

IDK, I'd like to think that my hate for COD is anything but blind. I'd like to think it's very carefully constructed and well supported.

^From this post, what I get is that you don't like CoD, but it has a lot to do with the developers and you actually think the formula is massive fun and have an embarassing amount of days playtime on number 4 and 6 combined. Still, according to previous posts, you admit to being a CoD hater and compare liking CoD to being a fan of pop music.

I'm confused, but probably not half as confused as you are :p:

Yeah, that's what I thought when you compared CoD to pop music. The charting pop music you linked to is hyped, that's why it's up there. I guessed hype was the reason you don't like CoD and as you say, that wouldn't be a relevant way of determining it's quality, hence my reply.

Lol, I'm not confused, I just regret spending so much time on the series. It wasn't until a couple weeks into MW2's release that I realized how crappy it all was. I thought Infinity Ward was the greatest developer ever while COD4 was still a fresh game.

I think you're misusing the word hype. The chart of music I linked, according to the website itself, is "The week's most popular songs across all genres, ranked by radio airplay audience impressions as measured by Nielsen BDS, sales data, and streaming activity data." That music is, in fact, the most popular music of the week. Similarly, Call of Duty, according to sales numbers for MW2 and BO, is in fact one of the most popular game franchises ever.

I'm not saying that COD sucks because it's popular. There are plenty popular games that are also excellent games (Half Life), just as there are plenty popular albums/artists/songs that are also excellent albums/artists/songs. I'm simply making the comparison that COD is the Nickelback of videogames... it's "good" to those who really can't be bothered in doing the research and having the experience/playtime to form an opinion based on more than just "I like it".

Well, I still think COD is more innovative than Halo personally, regardless of how shrewd the company's intentions are behind the game. Bobby Kotick may be a raging ****head, but it doesn't make COD any more or less good.

And I don't think the music and video game comparison in terms of popularity is a good one, since with video games the best selling ones tend to actually be good as opposed to music. Just look at the GTAs, CODs, Halos. All games that get good reviews and sell well.

That sounds really cool. I have a few friends who play it so maybe I'll try out the multiplayer. Open world games <3

Myself: I had another playthrough of Batman: Arkham Asylum last week and I forgot just how fun it is. Really everything in the game is handled well, and the action is incredibly fun as well as having some of the easiest controls I've ever seen in an action game (this is on PC). But the best part is when you're trapped in a room full of guys with guns. Swooping around... taking them out one by one.... evading their gazes... sall so fun. The only thing I felt disappointed about was the final battle, which felt really anticlimactic and easy.

I've also been playing Fallout: New Vegas. And it's one of the best games I've ever played. The world is enthralling and immensely rewarding to explore, even more than Fallout 3 in my opinion. VATS is still cool and I just love those shots where the camera follows the bullet right into your enemies brainpan. The sense of humor and fun pervading the game is also maybe its best feature, because I never feel like I'm in a dull world and there's always funny little details to pick up. Stumbling upon an interesting little story told in a series of several computer terminals that needed to be hacked inside a ruined robot factory was made so much more interesting just because of how off-the-record it was. Nowhere were you notified that there was a quest to be had; you just had to find your way around and it eventually led to a very worthwhile end. Also, The Strip, with all its warring factions and neon lights and gambling and prostitutes, is awesome.

So yeah it's an incredible game.

I don't really agree. I've read a couple star reviews of black ops now by people who seem to have real appreciation for the series and their positive opinions didn't seem like they were based on a lack of experience or reasoning.

I'll take my chances. ;)

Just got my Xbox back today...woot! Actually, they ended up replacing it instead of fixing it. Whatever, I'm not complaining. So tonight, I played "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" for a while with my hubby and room mate. Then we played "Left 4 Dead". Man, it's been too long having not played. I failed so hard. My aiming was terrible and can I just say, I hate those damn witches. I always end up waking them up on accident.

I remember the first time I played that game. It was pretty late at night and we had the volume up pretty high. My friend told me that the woman crying needed to be rescued. I nearly crapped my ****ing pants...

what did it innovate (honest question - not trolling)? Halo actually did bring something revolutionary to the FPS genre (the whole 'progressive' health method). what did CoD bring to the table that hadn't already been there in one form or another since?

personal opinion doesn't matter to innovation, it's an objective thing, they either developed and presented a brand new idea for the medium (which i can't think of) or they borrowed from their predecessors like most others (which is like faulting a rock band for having a bass player).

and before anyone says it, nicer graphics is not innovation. it's a reflection of better hardware being mass produced. few programmers still write efficient code, what's the point? just slap on another processor and more ram and stick in a juicier power supply and you're laughing so long as you can still cover the power bill.