I don't know why you would think that. I ramble on about the atmosphere of albums, movies and games all the time.

In response to both of you on this one: What I don't do is living myself into other worlds. You know, that whole thing about pretending you're an elf in a magical land so you don't have to deal with real life. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I don't play games for that.

I like games that are either more about visceral in the moment action that puts you in a state of heightened awareness. Getting into that zone where you press buttons really fast without even thinking about your actions. Just reacting instead of using your intellect in a more explicit way.

The other approach to games that I really enjoy is basically a sort of opposite of that. Games that put you in a very intellectually aware state of mind, where you are all engrossed in solving problems, playing wisely, observing how things work, etc.

Something like Skyrim, for example, is far too little of either and is designed more for wandering around, feeling like you're there, and that's not really my thing. Not anymore, that is. I've played all sorts of things over the years. I just decided that certain things were more worth my time than others. If I'm gonna spend times on video games at all, it has to be in a way that gives me something back that I value. Not just killing time.

About the life-skills thing: It's video games. If you need to justify them to yourself by pretending they'll teach you to run a businenss IRL or something, you're doing it wrong. But I actually just don't really think I understand why you brought that up, so maybe set me straight if I'm not following your train of thought.

Few things here..

1) Game economies are studied because we can learn from them. Maybe not teach you how to run a business but they certainly have value in general economics.

2) I don't play games to escape from life either and I'm not into roleplaying

3) I like both kinds of games you described, but I also find mindless grinding to be a very relaxing pass time, and wouldn't put it in the bad design category. Put on some slow piano instrumentals and just point, click, and watch while i do other things.. good stuff.

1) Sure, but in general, you avoid learning life skills by playing games more than you learn. Not you per se, just the general use of the word. This is part of why I stopped spending so much time on games. It can become too much time spent basically stalling in terms of personal development. Games are a lot about repeating patterns and I've found it immensely rewarding to cut my gaming time down rather heavily. Best life decision I ever made tbh

2) Roleplaying is probably interesting if you're into that, but it's just not really my thing either. Never played pen & paper roleplaying games either.

3) Well, grinding is horrible in my eyes. I could always find something better to do than that. I'm not saying I can't get sucked into it - more that I made a concious decision to not engage in gameplay of that sort more than an absolute minimum. But that's a choice I made. For reasons related to my answer to #1.

Curious how you feel about tedious real life hobbies that lead to a satisfying end result.. art, crocheting, woodworking, quilting, etc.

I don't consider grinding as nearly as valuable. Grinding is just games exploiting simple mental loopholes. Like getting that rat to press the button repeatedly in the hope that a trinket will come out. Art is not tedious, it's interesting and requires skill and concentration. Grinding is pure, mindless tedium that does nothing but suck hours out of your life that you could have spent more wisely. On painting or something.

I'm not saying you can't enjoy it - just that I don't personally consider it anything but a waste of time that I would never get back. Some years back, I decided to take the brevity of life very seriously. People act like I'm just "whining" with no just cause, but in fact I consider an hour a very valuable thing that I wouldn't want to sit down and knowingly squander. Not if I can help it. I still waste time, but I really try not to.

Agreed 100%

okay ignore art.. crocheting is pure mindless tedium until your quilt is done.. waste of life?

on the flip side, if grinding requires mental focus in the form of monsters having abilities that require you to pay attention or an in depth crafting system that requires decision making and mechanical precision do you still think it's a waste of time?

I'm not picking at your life decisions, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind your seemingly arbitrary double standards.

anyone want to join my rocket league club it's WWWP tag 6669 i'm rutabega420

My definition of grinding is that it's mindless. Like killing the same easy mobs over and over in the same way for exp. If it requires mental effort, it's not what I'd consider grinding. I also don't consider it a double standard, as what you do when you grind works differently mentally. Reward schedules and exploitation of Pavlovian responses. Basically the same psychology that games like Farmville exploit, and yeah, I do consider Farmville a horrible waste of time.

I assume crocheting requires some fine motor skills and it certainly occupies less of your mind when you're able to do it on auto pilot, than a game would. You're looking at the screen, absorbing information, reacting to it - even if on a very, very basic level that requires no effort. I deadens thought where crocheting would be something you could do while having more concentrated thoughts. To me, grinding is like unplugging yourself for a while. Like a sort of temporary death (hyperbole, but gets a point across). It takes you away from the real world and this feeling that you want to keep going until the next meter goes "ping!" has power over the mind in a sort of bad and unconstructive way. You'll hate me saying this, but I think that it's very possible that, given some years, you will come to agree with me and quit certain kinds of games. Many change their gaming habits when they've spent enough years doing the same **** over and over.

I also don't even do crocheting, so it's not like I feel like I should have to defend it.

I started a new DoS 2 character. Basically going full barbarian and attempting to kill as many people as possible. I've already experienced the story so I figured why not. I'm also handicapping myself and going solo. No party members whatsoever. Already killed Beast, The Red Prince and Sebille. Currently have tons of spells and like 20 res scrolls. This is fun.