The Batlord

FFV was my favorite grinding game. Leveling job classes takes the sting out of grinding when you're so high level that it can take an hour or more just to get a level.

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Key

You not liking something that others like? I'm shocked. Grinding isn't that bad if it isn't the whole point of the game. I've done heavy grinding in some games and I tend to enjoy it.

MicShazam

Stop being so offended that someone has a different perspective. Gamers don't handle opposing opinions well, I know that much.

My perspective is that life is waaaaaaayy too short for grinding. It's hard to think of something less worthwhile to do with my time.

Unitron

"If the game's not fun, why bother?" - the holy prophet Reggie



As far as what I've been playing, I beat Doom II with the complex doom mod, so now I'm on to trying to beat Plutonia and TNT. TNT has been a blast so far, and I think it's not far off from being as good as Doom II. There's a real good consistency with the maps.

Plutonia on the other hand, holy crap is that basically nightmare mode in any other Doom game. Too many Archvilles and Revenents for my tastes. Though I will say I do really like the idea for the Hunted stage, though it could have been executed much better. I have to give it credit for making Archvilles more intimidating and less annoying, but the maze gets a bit too confusing and I don't like the random opening of the doors.

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MicShazam

While I think the Hunted stage is a bit crap, I ****ing love Plutonia. I've completed it several times on Ultra Violence difficulty. But yeah, it's definitely the one you shouldn't play until you're through the other Doom 2 maps. The two secret stages are downright nuts.

TNT is my favourite Doom related thing. I just love the atmosphere and the style of level design.

Key

Someone didn't pick up on the sarcasm

YorkeDaddy

Meanwhile you play fancy galaga games that have zero story, zero progression, zero achievements of any notable kind...you just shoot stuff and move through levels. Or you play fighting games that...again, have zero story, zero progression (outside of your own skill level), zero anything to reward you for playing. How is that more worthwhile? It's cool in an RPG when you actually have something to show for the effort you put in, like a maxed out party with sweet ass gear. I love reaching that peak of power in a game, it's more satisfying than anything else in the whole medium

Earthbound is absolutely nasty early on but eases up once you've got the full party. It's one of those games where I'm impressed people were able to beat it back in the day without any assistance from guides/message boards.

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midnight rain

I kind of agree in that grinding is simply a bad gameplay mechanic that ruins the flow of a game. I've never felt it added enjoyment, it triggers some OCD satisfactions but ultimately feels empty. Kind of like achievement hunting. I play games for the experience, and I don't have much free time these days, so games where I have to grind are just a hard pass.

I loved the Final Fantasys during the PS1 era, but I haven't really kept up with JRPGs since. What are some good ones to check out? I've heard good things about the Ni No Kuni series

Unitron

Dang, and I think it's hard enough on Hurt Me Plenty.

Don't get me wrong, it's Doom so of course I still think it's really fun, but I think it's probably the toughest set of Doom maps I've ever played and I've played through a ton of wads.

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MicShazam

When are people actually salty that I don't like a thing and when is it sarcasm? I legit can't tell anymore.

"fancy Galaga games"

Well, yeah, I think it's actually very interesting how you frame this. Says a whole lot about what kind of perspective you come from.

I find it really odd that some people don't see the point in playing a game just for the sake of playing it. You know, for the process of actually engaging with the game's mechanics in the moment, here and now. You'd think that would be something all gamers could appreciate, but evidently not, as your attitude isn't even that rarely seen among gamers.

I don't see the things you think of as being rewarding and lending purpose to a game as being worth anything. Progression through experience levels, for example, might feel like an investment has been made and that it somehow paid off, but it's hollow and just an illusion.

If the game is engaging right now, in this moment, shouldn't that be enough? For example: I'm dodging bullets, holding my breath as a bullet zooms right past my tiny spaceship and I thought for a second I was gonna blow up and lose one of my three lives... then I'm totally sucked into the moment and feeling engaged, in trying my best not to **** it up and get a game over screen.

Same with fighting games. It's about the moment, not any reward to come later. I'm fully engaged in trying my best to fight well and win against the current opponent. What happens after the fight is nothing but a formality. I just wanna get to the next fight.

If you need a "reward" for playing, how good is the game really?

My perspective definitely does not match that of most gamers. If you find some talks where Jonathan Blow criticizes common game design ideas, you will find that his perspective matches mine pretty closely. It just so happens to be that gamer nerds generally hate his guts for the things he's said about game design

I've been thinking a lot about my gaming hobby over the years. I actually did a major cleanup a few years ago where I sold all games that I thought of as having shallow, mentally exploitative game design. This meant basically all RPG's I had on my consoles, among other things. So I'm pretty extreme in my views, I guess.

The OCD element is exactly it. I can get sucked into RPG grinding, but that doesn't mean that I find it a worthwhile thing to spend my time on. It's just cheap exploitation of a mental weakness that humans have. Garbage game designers who don't know to make a truly engaging game will lean on cheap reward scheduling.

I used to play so much Doom back in the 90's and early 2000's that I would get just way too good at it. I played some Plutonia earlier this year and admittedly struggled more than I used to.