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-   -   An American Carol (https://www.musicbanter.com/media/33374-american-carol.html)

Janszoon 10-02-2008 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stengel (Post 526793)
Although bigger government is a liberal idea, not a conservative one...
I had that notion in my head for a long time too (probably because my father is a libertarian) but I don't think it's really true. Both liberals and conservatives have their big government and small government strains. In recent history in the United States it has been the conservatives who generally have been pushing for bigger government.

Brad Stengel 10-02-2008 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 526823)
I had that notion in my head for a long time too (probably because my father is a libertarian) but I don't think it's really true. Both liberals and conservatives have their big government and small government strains. In recent history in the United States it has been the conservatives who generally have been pushing for bigger government.
True, it's wormed its way into neo-con ideals, but a 100% true 'conservative' not affiliated with the republican party, believes in smaller government.

And while I agree conservatives are more into meddling government these days, thats not to say liberals arent for even BIGGER government. Its just that alot of the high profile big gov. stuff- censorship, drug war, etc. tends to be more republican backed, while stuff like government interfering in free trade and moving towards a more socialist nation is all liberal.

Janszoon 10-02-2008 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stengel (Post 526837)
True, it's wormed its way into neo-con ideals, but a 100% true 'conservative' not affiliated with the republican party, believes in smaller government.

And while I agree conservatives are more into meddling government these days, thats not to say liberals arent for even BIGGER government. Its just that alot of the high profile big gov. stuff- censorship, drug war, etc. tends to be more republican backed, while stuff like government interfering in free trade and moving towards a more socialist nation is all liberal.
I don't think it's accurate to say that 'true' liberals are fundamentally for big government (think anarchists) or that 'true' conservatives are fundamentally for small government (think fascists). Like I said before, there are different strains under the umbrellas of both liberal and conservatives, some are for bigger government, some are for smaller.

Brad Stengel 10-02-2008 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 526844)
I don't think it's accurate to say that 'true' liberals are fundamentally for big government (think anarchists) or that 'true' conservatives are fundamentally for small government (think fascists). Like I said before, there are different strains under the umbrellas of both liberal and conservatives, some are for bigger government, some are for smaller.
Yeah, I meant in general. And I feel in general the entire country is moving towards big government now regardless. But it is true that one of the old ideals of pre-Reagan conservatism was smaller government.

Fyrenza 10-06-2008 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 525851)
That's good. I think it's pretty rare though. Where are you from, out of curiosity? I ask because what is considered conservative tends to vary from culture to culture.
Republic of Texas, USA :laughing:

RoemerMW 10-06-2008 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 526844)
I don't think it's accurate to say that 'true' liberals are fundamentally for big government (think anarchists) or that 'true' conservatives are fundamentally for small government (think fascists). Like I said before, there are different strains under the umbrellas of both liberal and conservatives, some are for bigger government, some are for smaller.
On the political scale, anarchy is more hardcore Libertarianism than hardcore Liberalism. Communism or Socialism is the farthest left, not anarchy. And yes, fascism/dictatorships are the farthest right you can go, not small government. Sorry to be nitpicky, no hard feelings or anything.

Janszoon 10-06-2008 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberFilmBuff (Post 528030)
On the political scale, anarchy is more hardcore Libertarianism than hardcore Liberalism. Communism or Socialism is the farthest left, not anarchy. And yes, fascism/dictatorships are the farthest right you can go, not small government. Sorry to be nitpicky, no hard feelings or anything.
I disagree. While it's true that some anarchists are not liberals, overall it is a left-wing philosophy. From Wikipedia's "anarchism" entry:

Quote:
There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Anarchism is usually considered to be a radical left-wing ideology, and as such much of anarchist economics and legal philosophy reflect anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism or participatory economics; however, anarchism has always included an individualist strain, including those who support capitalism (e.g. market anarchists: anarcho-capitalism, agorism, etc.) and other non-capitalist market-orientated economic structures (e.g. mutualists, some individualist anarchists).

RoemerMW 10-06-2008 10:45 PM
I guess everyone has their own definitions. I'm just basing what I said on a few online political charts and various party platforms. I suppose you're right.

TheBig3 10-07-2008 06:19 AM
on what grounds would an absense of political control be able to be given a political identity?

boo boo 10-07-2008 11:58 AM
Funny that Bill O'Reilly got really pissed off that Religulous got good reviews but American Carol didn't.

Must be media bias right?

This of course, is the same guy who think Chronicles of Narnia got snubbed for best picture.


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