Fruitonica

As opposed to mindlessly jumping around floating platforms and on the heads of enemies, ala sonic and mario games which you are so enarmoured with.
There is plenty of room for strategy in a good FPS, especially when you get into hard sections that you have to replay several times, plan and memorise a sequence to get through.

Wow, how dare they target an audience other than you. Multiplayer is generally the funnest way to experience the game, make some damn friends, or just play over the internet.
Besides there are plenty of shooters with compelling single player stories. Alongside Half Life and Metroid I'd throw up the Deus Ex series.

An FPS will always be better on a PC. I never have had problems with a checkpoint system, quicksave works just fine.

What other genre actually develops better AI than the shooter genre. I can't really think of one. The most modern game I've played is Half Life 2 and the AI was fine, although at times it actually seemed a step down from the marines in HL1. I'm sure things have improved since that game was released about 4 years ago.

It forces you to be frugal and conserve your amunition, it introduces a level of tension into the game. Being able to use the biggest weapons the whole time is pointless. This is all part of the strategy of playing.
I actually wish shooters would give you less ammo, because I generally have a glut of it and rarely run out. Name a game that forces you to constantly use a handgun because of scarcity of ammo.

Wait, you complain about terrible AI and then whine that enemies take cover. Gun fights are only protracted if you also sit behind cover, flush them out with a grenade or close with them and blast with a shotgun.
And cover is also great for the player, who doesn't love popping out, letting off a shower of bullets and sprinting to a new bolt hole.

Just plainly untrue, if you can't see what you're doing then just look around, it's easy enough. I agree that too many platforming elements become frustrating in an FPS.

Linear does not mean easy and I fail to see any connection to it becoming boring fast just because you are guided along a path. Provided they can keep the level design consistently interesting then it shouldn't be an issue. I don't know what your issue is with sprawling maps, once again it isn't a case linear, non linear - you would have been better off just attacking bland level design.

Just no, I love crates.

boo boo

I knew I would make some friends with this one.

tideou
(2D) Platformers are generally more challenging than first person shooters. That's not to say that platformers are hard, but rather, shooters are too easy and repetitive, but still fustrating for the reasons I've mentioned. So such games are not fustrating for the right reasons.

Hell, take other shooter oriented games like shoot em ups and run n guns. These kinda of games were generally very challenging, more so than FPSs. They were also a lot more fun IMO.

That's a very tedious element and this goes back to my earlier entry about lack of save points. You play through a level enough times and it get's pretty darn repetitive. And when it's too linear, that takes away a lot of the replay value.

And being forced to go through the same tedious areas again and again and again because of scarcely placed checkpoints and a lack of quick saves. Yeah, that sucks.


If I want some fun multiplayer I'll play Bomberman or something. Goldeneye's multiplayer was pretty sweet, not without it's fustrations like navigating through some awfully complicated areas.

I'm just turned off by how incredibly repetitive the genre is.

And since you've brought up Deus Ex, which is more like a cross between a shooter and an RPG, I do think we need more games like that which combine genres in an interesting way.

I was specifically refering to console games that don't have that feature. Like Metroid Prime (which I love, btw).

Well here's the thing. If you have something like a platformer, the AI dosen't have to be anything special, most enemies in platformers are limited to just one kind of attack after all, and part of the fun is the learning curve and figuring out how to avoid and defeat enemies. Plus the chalenge in platformers is mostly in the level design.

With shooters it's obviously different, level design has a lesser role in gameplay and it's really all about the enemies. If you have poor AI in a shooter, then it pretty much makes the game a breeze to play through every time, but unlike the best platformers or rpg's out there, there's not much fun playing through the game over and over because there's not much else that catches your attention. You shoot a bunch of bad guys with poor AI, so there's no challenge or even stragegy to it (unless you count stuff like the cover system, which just slows things down more than anything) and despite that it's STILL fustrating, because no matter what you can never dodge enemie fire, you're always being shot at, but thankfully a lot of shooters are pretty generous with the health power ups so you won't die unless you really suck.

You know when I look back on it, Goldeneye 007 was more fustration than anything else, it's considered one of the greatest games in the genre if not THE greatest. It really set the standard for the genre especially in terms of multiplayer. But it was still a pretty flawed game and a lot of shooters are basically an extention of Goldeneye's core gameplay, with many of the same problems unresolved.

I can't think of many FPSs where people aren't constantly bitching about the AI.

Half Life is certainly an exception though.

Goldeneye 007.

The limited ammo thing leads to a lot of fustration, running out of ammo at the most crucial moments, which I understand adds some suspense to the game. But it can also be a real pain when you're trying to save up ammo for a boss or something and you're going through the whole level trying not to waste ammo, which is easier said than done when you have a whole bunch of sh*t coming at you. This was another thing about Goldeneye that pissed me off time and time again.


Constant respawning/being unable to avoid enemie fire =/= Good AI.

There's a difference between a challenge and just being unfair and or tedious. The cover system just makes regular gun fights last forever, trying to stay alive is not that hard, it's just when it takes you forever just to kill that one guy who you could kill easly if you had a clear shot of him that make's it annoying as all hell.



Oh I forgot to mention one of the WORST things about shooters.

And that is without a doubt, trying to adjust your camera when you're being shot at from every direction.


Yeah Metroid Prime really impressed me with it's level design, even Halo has a pretty neat level design scheme I must admit.

But I find that most shooters look pretty much the same.

One of the best aspects of games like Quake and Metroid Prime is the scarcity of enemies, they hang out and wait for you in a certain area instead of being everywhere and chasing you all over the damn place. I get really pissed off from shooters where you must complete a mission while enemies are constantly chasing you everywhere you go. Yeah, back to Goldeneye again, there's a pattern here as you can see. Trying to complete missions in Goldeneye on hard mode is like trying to play Zelda while being kicked in the balls every 3 seconds, just because it's hard dosen't make it enjoyable.

Anyway. You have a right to your opinion but there's no need to be so anal. After all, this thread is supposed to be all about my opinion. I'm not the master intimidator that Urban is, but it's a no brainer that not everyone is gonna agree with everything on my list.

But I should make one thing very clear. I never said all FPSs are bad. If I did a top 50 of my favorite games Quake 2 and Metroid Prime would be in there somewhere.

My main complaint with FPSs is that there are just way too many of them, surely you agree with that, at least.

I don't feel any genre should dominate the industry. And it just puzzles me as to why one of the most repetitive genres is also the most popular.

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dear boo boo,

your such a nerd, it's awesome.

I wish I'd had you as a student.

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If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

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Fruitonica

Sorry, I didn't realise my post had grown so long/pedantic, haha. A rant thread is always funner if you can get an argument going.

And without seeming more anal, it's spelled tedious.

lucifer_sam

What about weighted companion cubes?



(That was a fantastic game, by the way. I loved Portal infinitely more than those lame-ass Half-Life episodes.)

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Sparky

I actually have to agree with boo boo on FPS.

Think about how many fps' come out. Maybe 3-4 a year are actually good?

FPS are the equivalent to the platformer in the NES, SNES, GENESIS, days. When you have one type of genre as saturated as FPS of course most of its crap.

I do disagree with the multi player however...

RoemerMW

SPOILERS
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I was so sad when you had to destroy the companion cube.

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sweet_nothing

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The cake is a lie.

Also wtf are you talking about? The Half Life 2 episodes werent that bad.

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boo boo

66: "This game was great for it's time but by today's standards..."

Boy do I f*cking hate that sentence.

Listen assh*les, if I really gave a sh*t about how games rated by today's standards, I wouldn't be playing games that are over 20 years old. If a game is good, it's always gonna be good. Don't tell me how dated it is, it's a f*cking NES game, of course it's dated. It's the datedness that make's it so nostalgiac. It's the simplicity in gameplay, graphics and sound that make these games charming and appealing. So stop bullsh*ting me about how dated the original Metroid or Zelda is when compared to it's modern counterparts, because that same logic could apply to any 8 bit game.

So please, you elitist idiot critics out there, stop telling people not to spend their Wii points on that NES game because "the gameplay is simplistic" or because "the graphics and audio are dated".

The mere fact that I still even play NES games should be a good enough indication that I don't care about the limitations of 8 bit processing. When I play Super Mario Bros 3, the last thing I care about is how it compares to Super Mario Galaxy. I play old games because they are still fun, why should I care about how they "stack up" against today's games?

Anyone who considers themselves to be a "retrogamer" shouldn't give a flying f*ck about how Phantasy Star II compares to Final Fantasy X, or how Doom compares to Halo 2, or how Super Tecmo Bowl compares to Madden 08. Games should be judged on their own merits, not by how they have been "outdone" by modern games in the same genre.

For those of you who like to poke fun of people like me for being stuck in the past, think about this for a moment. 20 years from now, when we'll be playing our PS9s through telepathy, the very games that you enjoy now and rave about being "the best ever" are going to be considered extremely outdated and will probably be downloadable on the internet for a ridiculously small fraction of what they cost now. People will laugh at the idea of Metal Gear Solid 4 being worth anything more than 8 bucks. And yeah, if you still prefer Halo 3 to the latest virtual reality shooters, holographic RPGs, oral sex simulators and whatever kind of games that will be popular in the future, you're gonna be mocked for the same reason you mock somebody for not owning a next gen console because he's just fine and dandy with his Nintendo 64.

So yeah, think about that.

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boo boo

65: Christians

I'm not saying this out of bigotry. I have friends that are Christian, we all do.

I'm not talking about Christians in general, I'm talking specifically about... well what other Christians are there to rant about? The Christian right, duh.

Christian conservatives have long fought hard against the evil Satanic forces of science and imagination, video games in particular have been the targets for video game conservatives for ages. It's the new rock n roll.

Now for Christians to object to the graphic violence of Grand Theft Auto and Resident Evil, or even the now ridiculous fatalities of Mortal Kombat is perfectly understandable. But the religous right are all about finding innovative new ways of taking it way too far.

They're deeply concerned about the "Satanic" influence Pokemon and Harry Potter have on children, while setting their own positive example by voting for a president whose disastrous policies have resulted in the deaths of millions, TWICE.

Just about anything with fantasy or magic elements is considered inherently Satanic, so if you're raised in an anal Christian household, your parents are just as likely to take away your copy of Everquest as they would your copy of Manhunt. So the message is, graphic violence is no worse than hanging around with elves and fairies.

I remember how pissed off I was when my grandma's Christian friends took away my copy of Mazin Saga for the Genesis due to it's "demonic" themes.

Anyone who has ever played games with a Christian that's very strict about his/her beliefs knows where I'm coming from. Remember when you had to explain to your friend the origin of Zelda's magic powers and that they come from the Triforce and not Satan? Remember when you had to explain to them that Bowser dosen't really die after he falls into the pit of lava? Remember last time you played Brawl and turned off the Final Smashes so they wouldn't find Zero Suit Samus in her skin tight body suit and rant about how Nintendo are unholy pornographers?

And of course, with professional dumbass Jack Thompson leading the way (and OF COURSE he will get his own entry in this list) religious right activists continue to exagerate the content of games like Bully and Mass Effect and blow them way out of preportion. These were games that were controversial solely because no one had actually played them.

Find a little tidbit about something like a brief sex scene where you get a quick shot of some blue alien chick's left ass cheek and FoxNews f*cking turns it into this.



Also. Just like with rock music, there are Christian developers who develop Christian games. And should it surprise you that many of these games are considered the worst in the industry? Of course not. Christians may be blessed with eternal forgiveness but they make pretty lousy game designers.



One recent Christian game is Left Behind: Eternal Forces, a real time strategy that has you fighting against the forces of the Antichrist in New York City. Men and women will join your party (easy to say, men are considered more valuable and have far more abilities than women) as you convert the unsaved, and KILL them when you fail, that's right, you can KILL people just for being nonbelievers. You will also need to build and claim buildings including stuff like banks and cafes to strengthen your Christian propaganda machine. Oh and watch out for Satan's minions, who appear in the form of gangsters, rock stars, college students (or secularists), homosexuals and of course people of other religions. Oh, and it even has multiplayer where the opposing side can play the forces of the Antichrist, converting nonbelievers to eternal hellfire. Talk about a mixed message.

Yeah, it is kinda funny to see Christians approve of and market a game like this while ranting about how Okami is a Satanic "recruitment tool for Buddhism". It's sad how some Christians will reject anything "secular" regardless of it's quality while buying any piece of horse sh*t with the Jesus label on it. This of course easly explains how such a godawful mess that is the Left Behind book series has somehow managed to sell in the millions.

Anyway, I'll leave you with this.

Still think video games aren't the work of Satan? - The Landover Baptist Church Forums

Yeah. This would be quite higher if this list was in any order.

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