boo boo

I love the fact that the Wii appeals to a lot of new people, I don't have many friends that you could call hardcore gamers. The Wii is the best multiplayer console for me hands down, because I can get just about anyone to play the Wii with me who would never touch a PS3 or 360.

It's pretty elitist that gamers actually complain about a console just because it literally has something for everybody. Maybe it dosen't have enough "hardcore" titles sure, and I agree that they need improvement on that.

But if the Wii gets more people interested in video games and more people to take it seriously as a form of entertainment or even art. Then that's just fine by me, certainly fine for the industry. Because that way maybe developers will be ecnouraged to make more innovative titles instead of just dissing out the same sh*t from "Generic shooter 101".

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Strummer521

I like this thread...more please. Also, Boo Boo, if you haven't played "Cave Story", you should give it a try. It's a great nes style platformer with a good story and a really solid weapons system.

Plus...you can download it for free.

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Sparky

You played Braid strummer?

mr dave

do i need to repost the release list for this past week?

where's the innovation? it's pretty much all shovelware.

by 'less than casual gamers' i mean those that are between casual and hardcore (being that it's a smaller market it's 'less than' in my book - the hardcore being the smallest market). they're the ones who know what video games can do, have a bit of a clue on the technology and who look at a release list that features a half dozen of the same type of game and rolls their eyes.

you're making the same arguments about video games = art that people in my class (electronic game design technology) were making 10 years ago about the industry and continuing to ignore the fact that the vast majority of video game developers are just some dudes working for a development house on a contract controlled by a publisher. there's little room for real creative growth when you're on a budgeted timeline for a contract that's already been signed. it's really easy to talk about how developers should act when all you've done is play the end product, it's a whole other thing when you've worked 16 hour days 6 days a week for the last month to hit a contractual milestone for a cheap ripoff of a boring game. most development houses also feature a REALLY awesome 'intellectual property' clause in their contracts so working on something innovative / creative on your own time automatically becomes property of your company.

while the wii sells like hotcakes what are the actual game title sales like? their established brands are sure bets (smash bros. / mario kart / metroid / zelda). aside from wii fit and guitar hero has anything come close to hitting those sales? what's the point in releasing a dozen different versions of mario party if people are only going to buy the original? even smash bros saw a ridiculous drop in sales after just 4 weeks, the people who were going to buy already had it by that point.

i only know one person with a wii who's bought more than 2 games for it. everyone else is content with wii sports and possibly wii play or wii fit. that's it, they aren't interested in getting a half dozen sing along games. so why flood the market with crap?

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Sparky

They're is no risk making shovelware for the wii. How much money do you think take-two spent on Carnival Games? And i know that game sold a million + copies.

The problem with the wii is not that it's necessarily bad, its just so behind the curve in terms of graphical power.

If your gonna make, say bioshock 2, you only need to make one graphics engine to run the game on pc, xbox 360 and ps3, but then you have to practically start from scratch or use last-gen technology to port it to wii.

Nintendo isn't even helping the little developer. How much publicity did they give to Zak and Wiki? Or how about the Conduit? I'm sure the Conduit would entice a lot of wii owners if they knew about it.

Sony has been giving a huge marketing push to Little Big Planet, why doesn't Nintendo do the same for its titles?

mr dave

take two got lucky.

think of it like this. 25 minigames is still going to take a few guys a few months to make in an office that has to be staffed and paid for. developers generally don't work from home unless they have a day job.

how many other shovelware titles hit like that? it's not really that shovelware is risky, it's more like b-grade material. if you saturate the market with that then it's what you're going to become.

you're right with the bioshock example. unless something like the unreal engine supports all the current platforms.

it's not up to nintendo to promote someone else's games. they're not an advertising firm hehe. it's unfortunate that the smaller places can't afford the type of publicity bigger titles get. you're right that the conduit looks cool but i don't know who publishes high voltage software's games.

sony's big push is a hope that people will drop cash on ps3s for the holiday season. plus they're the ones publishing the game. nintendo definitely does the same when they're the ones publishing the titles, but those titles are also usually well established franchises at this point.

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boo boo

I've already brought that up with number 70 on my list. And once again that isn't Nintendo's fault, it's the third parties fault for not wanting to make anything for the Wii other than party games, I can't blame them since it's a popular genre, but I expect the party game fad to die out soon enough and hopefully this will encourage them to make better games for the system.

PS3 and 360 games are exactly the same as PS2 and Xbox games, just with better graphics. And if all gamers want is better shading and more realistic skin tones then they deserve to be disappointed.

At least with the Wii, there is the potential for innovation. Having played Galaxy I can say that the wiimote can be used in some pretty fun and creative ways. Nintendo have been making good use of it. If third party developers don't any better ways to use the wiimote other than for party games or don't want to make innovative games for the Wii and would rather try to emulate traditional controls instead of doing something different than that's their fault for being idiots and not giving the system enough attention.

.

I'm confused by all this inconsistancy. If the Wii is such the inferior piece of hardware that everyone says it is, then how in the hell is it so difficult to program for when compared to PS3 or 360? And please don't tell me it's the wiimote.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, Super Paper Mario, Warioware, Big Brain Academy, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Umbrella Chronicles.

That game sold over 5 million copies and you're citing that as an example of a lack of successful games?

Then he's either poor or not looking very hard.

So let me get this straight, you're saying the Wii is the best selling system BECAUSE of the very same kind of games that everyone says is hurting it?

Hmmm.... Wii Play is the best selling non bundle game for the Wii. Holy sh*t you're onto something. And...... I don't see your point.

One thing that I can't stress enough is that anyone who thinks a console is doomed just from judging the quality of it's games in it's first few years is a fool. Remember the Genesis? Well it's launch was pretty horrible, Altered Beast was considered it's killer app at the time and that's a game most critics today rate no higher than a 4 out of 10.

It had a lot of the same problems the Wii does, an underwhelming lack of third party support (in the beginning) and was technically inferior to it's competition (SNES, PC Engine CD, Neo Geo). Dispite all this it became a hit and all it needed was one hit game (Sonic) and strong marketing. It just took them a few years.

The Wii already has some strong killer apps for just it's first 2 years. Galaxy, TP, Brawl, MP3 all rate 10s with a lot of game sources. With Rayman Raving Rabbids, Super Paper Mario, Wario Kart Wii, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition, Umbrella Chronicles, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Boom Box, de Blob, Wii Fit and Warioware: Smooth Moves getting mostly 8 or 9s. As well as the Wii versions of Okami and Bully, which are selling better than the PS2 versions now I think.

I'll give it to you that the 360 has more highly rated games. But the Wii's gamerankings average of highly rated games is on par with PS3's, with twice as many games that rate an 8 or higher among 50 critics. Don't include the non-exclusives and it surpasse's the PS3 even more in highly rated games.

PS3 is expected to be around for a looooooooong time, as long as Nintendo dosen't pull a Sega and discontinue the Wii too early, it will have a LOT of time for it's library to build up. There's already a lot of upcoming Wii titles that I'm excited about for the holiday season/early 09. MadWorld, The Conduit, new Animal Crossing and Tales of Symphonia games, a Dead Rising port and a Castlevania fighting game just to name a few.

Your turn mate.

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Sparky

uh, cause the difference between Twilight Princess for the Gamecube and Wii is incredible?

Or super paper mario, the gamecube intended-then-ported-to-wii title?

And Metroid Prime:Corruption was so vastly different then the other titles?

Nintendo Re-Releasing GameCube Games on Wii, Adding New Wii Controls - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads

hell, ill take better graphics anyday

mr dave

alrighty then

i'm too lazy to do the multiquote thing so whatever. mostly from the top hehe

#70 third party games, low quality etc. etc. fact is, it's a publisher driven industry, developers are not the ones calling the shots. it's unfortunate but it's what it is. while it's still possible for a few people to make a game out of their basement / garage they're still going to need to shop it around - and get lucky - to find a publisher to get it onto shelves. for the most part the publisher is the one fronting the money for the developers to make a product. you're going to have a hard time finding a venture capitalist who's willing to invest in a product that doesn't have any form of established distribution.

innovation does not equal success. sales = success. again it's unfortunate but it's what it is. publishers don't care about innovation, they want a return on their investment. safest way to do that is a small budget, small team, making a low risk title. party games are popular and simple to make. they don't need to have a massive hit in order to break even. on the flip side there's always the chance that it will become a big hit. FAR less risky than investing a large budget into an innovative title that's only bought by a small portion of the market.

as far as coding for the wii. it's not that it's inferior technology but it's different technology. it's a lot easier to recycle code between similar platforms. it's likely more of a logistics thing than logic. unreal 3 is the simplest example, the core graphics engine has support for the ps3 / 360 / pc. so the bulk of the work for 3 products only has to be done once. even if epic games really wanted to have unreal games on the wii they would have to make a whole new graphics engine specifically for that one platform. which is a better investment? a 1 for 1 deal or a 3 for 1?

while it's obviously possible to have 3d FPS games on the wii the developers either need to make their own engine ($$$), or license an old one and either find people who still remember how to use old technology or spend a fair amount of time and money getting a team up to snuff with the specific tech again ($$$). with little guarantee on a return.

as for your examples of big sellers only 'big brain academy' isn't part of a very well established franchise. nintendo doesn't need to spend a dime advertising mario anymore, slap his face on something and you've got a million+ sales.

my example about smash bros wasn't that it wasn't successful but that the bulk of the people who were going to get that game did so as soon as it came out. nintendo's big hits sell big during their initial release and then that's that, it's part of being an established franchise, the people know the name and either get it right away or never bother.

it's not that the people i know are poor, it's that they're satisfied with wii sports. my friend who has more than 2 games has at least a dozen (not counting the virtual console downloads).

wii play is likely the best selling game for the wii because it comes with an extra controller. the wii is the best selling system because of itself, not because of its games. it's cheap, simple, accessible, and fun, right out of the box. what's the point in having high rated games if you can't find them on the shelf? put yourself in the shoes of a single parent looking for a game for their child. you get to the wii section and then WTF? oh hey look another 'wii-sports' game with an extra controller. the kid likes that bowling game, now they'll be able to play with their friends.

mad world looks awesome. the conduit and tales of symphonia have potential. i've read very bad things about the dead rising port. the castlevania fighting game looks lame.

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mr dave

i'll take fun over graphics anyday

but really when you strip a game down past its graphics it's really just a variation on a handful of established concepts. ESPECIALLY since the point of playing most games has become 'experiencing' the game rather than getting a high score or competing with friends.

although the party games are changing that.

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