debaserr

just saw this as well. i was on the edge of my seat most of the movie. i really liked it. i especially liked the scene where arthur was fighting in the hotel, but it was solid throughout.

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TheCunningStunt

I know what you meant, people think he used Leo-mania (a load of teenage girls wanting to mount him.) to springboard himself and think less of him for it. It's just like Robert Pattinson getting a load of success off the back of Twilight, the difference is Leo has had acting ability ever since he was a teen. I think he used Titanic to propel himself, he shook the posterboy image around 2002 and he never looked back. I don't know how anyone can't like him, he's a great actor AND he seems like a great guy. Always seems polite and talks with such passion for what he does. I have a lot of love for Leo.

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Molecules

i dont think just because it's a self-reflexive narrative in this postmodern age it can be chalked down to Kaufman, it's better: Coogan doing the kind of naturalistic tragic/comic acting he excels at and we are normally only priveleged to on the small screen. Hopefully we will not be exposed to any more demeaning Hollywood roles and he will get back to doing what he does best. And i really think Winterbottom is the bee's knees, although i've not see the new one wiv all da wimmim killing an that

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dankrsta

Well, I don't like him and it has nothing to do with Titanic and Leo-mania. In fact, I saw What's Eating Gilbert Grape before Titanic and many of his 90s movies I saw around the time of Titanic coming out, so I already knew that he wasn't just some pretty poster boy and I knew what he's capable of (I actually thought he was retarded in Gilbert Grape and that remains one of his most convincing performances). I started disliking him when he hooked up with Scorsese and started playing all these angsty, tough guy roles that he's not suited for, or roles that call for some heavy emotional breakdowns that allow him to overact terribly. I can't think of a more frequently miscast actor in these high profile films today. That's why he often appears like trying too hard, like forcing the characters' acts and emotions down our throats and banging our heads with a hammer. He's obviously very capable technically, but he's rarely natural and effortless. And it bothers me personally, because he's usually in films I would like to see. But he can be excellent when he plays to his strengths like in Catch Me if You Can which is his most natural performance in the 00s. I have yet to see Shutter Island and Inception, and I bet he's doing his usual thing with Scorsese, but I hope Nolan managed to tone down his acting a bit.

And I'm not alone in this view of DiCaprio. That's why I bolded your sentence. There are many people that liked him better when he was younger, even in Titanic, and don't buy him now as an intense, tough actor. He's no De Niro, but it feels like he's trying to be. He's one of those actors who will always polarize the audience, I feel.

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TheCunningStunt

I don't know how he's wrongly cast for the roles, have you not seen The Departed? He pulled off the tough guy thing really well. He exudes angst in the roles he plays, which is a good thing for them type of roles. Sometimes people try to do that, and they just can't pull it off. You really believe the character Leo is trying to play, I mean he's quite clearly a very good actor. Because he can do it all, whether it's a retarded kid, or someone on the run (Catch Me If You Can), or a million air (Aviator), a lover (The Titanic).

He can do it all, if you dislike him because you see his partnership with Scorsese as him trying to copy Deniro then I don't get that. I love Deniro because he's brilliant what he does. But I actually think Leo is the better actor, he reaches that emotional level constantly. I mean in the Aviator, that's got to be one of his most convincing performances. Just because he's drawn to characters that have emotionally difficulties is NOT a bad thing. Every character he plays has a different story to them, and he has to really get underneath the character and find some pain there. I don't think it's a case of 'overreacting terribly', he reacts accordingly. He's also an extremely brave actor, he tries things outside his comfort zone. He attempts accents suited to the role. Even if you don't think they're good, he tries to test himself as an actor far more than Deniro ever did.

I think Leo has proven he can pull off almost any role. The success of The Departed really shows he's suited to the tough guy role. But how many tough guy roles has he played? The Departed, Gangs of New York, Blood Diamond. Not that many... name someone better suited to the tough guy role? Edward Norton? Perhaps, but I think Leonardo is better.

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dankrsta

Let me just say that I've seen all of his films except for Shutter Island and Inception. The Departed is the perfect example of how he just can't pull off a tough guy role. It always feels like an act, like a boy playing dress up. He's just not natural in those roles. And that goes for Gangs of New York, Blood Diamond and Body of Lies as well. It feels like he desperately wanted to shake of his Titanic image and as a result he ended up trying too hard. When he plays a charming, boyish, sneaky character, he excels, like in Catch Me if You Can, his best performance in the 00s.

Well, I don't dislike him for working with Scorsese, per se, but because those are the roles he's not suited for. But Scorsese obviously likes him, so what do I know. Maybe he's just comfortable with always working with the same actor, like he was with De Niro. But that will always draw comparisons between the two actors and it will not look good for DiCaprio. For these are the roles that De Niro would have played in his prime, and based on his own powerful performances, one can't help but wonder how much better he would've been in them. And since DiCaprio obviously wants that kind of acclaim, he should be judged on a higher level. So, yeah, I think De Niro was a much better actor in his prime. Even a chain of mediocre roles and movies lately are not enough to make me forget what a wonderful actor he was.

Of course, it's not a bad thing. I like that kind of character WHEN pulled off convincingly. Like I said, DiCaprio is good technically, but that pain you mentioned is always on the surface, he knows how to act it out, what faces to make etc. But truly great actors don't just pull faces, they become a whole character. That pain should come from the inside naturally, where as with DiCaprio it always feels forced. He obviously tries hard to be genuine, but that's the problem, he tries hard where as he should just be. I can't connect to what his characters are feeling, because he's forcing the emotions to the point where they don't look genuine anymore. Maybe this sounds like a nitpick, but since DiCaprio chooses to play this kind of emotionally complex roles, I always judge him on that higher level.

Obviously, since he's so popular, many people find him convincing, but on the other side, many people don't. That's why I said he's the actor that polarizes the audience in many ways, not just because of Titanic.

Beside the fact that I think Norton is a better actor, yes, maybe, for some roles, like Howard Hughes. Others on top of my head: Viggo Mortensen, Christian Bale, Guy Pearce, Joaquin Phoenix, Russell Crowe, a bit older ones like Gary Oldman, Daniel Day-Lewis (well maybe they're not suited anymore because of the age, but since they're chameleons, you can never know.)

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TheCunningStunt

The Departed for me, is the perfect example of how he CAN pull it off. Sure, it's obvious he's tried to select his roles extremely carefully after 'The Beach'. He's chosen roles where the characters all have something about them. Characters that have deep psychological problems are the ones hardest to play, you really have to hit the right notes. It seems like since the dawn of the naughties he's played: the tough guy, and the guy on the verge of a breakdown. And in that respect he definitely is trying hard, but there's nothing wrong with him wanting to shake that Titanic image. If other actors did that, it'd be refreshing. Pattinson trying to shake his Twilight roots would be refreshing to see. I think because of Dicaprio's other roles (Romeo, Titanic, Catch Me If You Can) he's seen in a certain way, and if he plays a bad boy, it might be unusual and not feel right, but for me he can do it all.

I don't think it's a case of Scorsese is always comfortable with having the same actor, I don't think Scorsese would use Leo so much if he wasn't the right man. It will draw comparisons between the two, but in my opinion that's good for Leo. What did Deniro play? He played a Jack the lad, psycho and tough guy through out his entire career, even as he got older he still plays the retired tough guy, almost like a parody of his former self. But I agree, he was still teriffic at what he did. All be it a type cast actor. Dicaprio however, went from Titanic, where he was a poster boy for 13 year old guys. To reaching new heights as an actor with The Departed. He's also really grew up physically. If you look at his build in The Beach and then look at the Departed... he's really filled out. He looks the part.


The bold part to me, you're basically saying yeah he's a good actor. He does everything actors should do and has everything actors should have but you still don't like him. I just think you don't like him because he hasn't shaken his image of the nice guy from Titanic and Catch Me If You Can. I think to reach a certain emotional level, to really bring the audience in and show them the characters pain you DO have to force it somewhat. That kind of pain from a character with deep sited problems just doesn't come naturally, you have to work at it. But I think Dicaprio gets a nice balance of forcing it as well as that naturally ability. Dicaprio is more than just making the same faces, that's what Russell Crowe does. (One of my favourite actors, but he makes a lot of the same faces.)

Dicaprio for me is on parr with Russell Crowe.



I think Dicaprio is slightly better than Norton, and I mean slightly because Norton is brilliant. But how can Norton play a skin head Nazi in American History X after being Aaron in Primal Scream? (for the most part, Aaron was a nice young man.) - he bulked up and changed his demeanour and appearance. Just like Dicaprio, skinny boy in Titanic. (Slightly more) Muscley man in The Departed.

Christian Bale and Joaquin Phoenix are no where near Dicaprio levels. Johnny Depp and Dicaprio for me are the best modern day actors, Depp is the best psychical actor and Dicaprio is the best all round actor. I've never not enjoyed a Dicaprio performance.

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TheCunningStunt

Watched this the other night, I fancied something a bit light hearted. A rom-com by the Coens made good sense, but this is the worst film of theirs I've seen. I only have 4 Coen Films left to see before I've seen them all. Might watch Raising Arizona tonight.

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debaserr

pretty good. it seemed to lack an emotional punch making me care a bit less than i would have.

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dankrsta

Nothing wrong with that (the bold part), but he's not succeeded in shaking that off completely, because even though he's older now, looks different and is bulked up, he still has that boyish quality in him, that playful charm that he's not using in his acting because he doesn't play to his strengths. That's why he doesn't feel right as a tough guy, or alfa-male. The transformation didn't come from within. And he's not that kind of actor anyway, the transformative, chameleon type. He's a traditional leading man, a movie star type, so he should be playing up his own persona and charisma and not doing the impersonations of tough guys, which he's not.

It doesn't really matter how many different characters he plays, as long as he's convincing in them, typecast or not. I would've liked DiCaprio better if he was typecast as that character in Catch Me if You Can, because at least he would be convincing.

Well, he doesn't have authenticity and that to me is a much more important thing to have than technique, in any art.

Great actors work at it before the filming. They build a whole character from within with all the details, nuances, emotional levels and then they let it go. When the filming of the scenes starts they are natural, like they're not acting and even if the scenes call for the over the top behavior, they don't feel forced. This is something DiCaprio can't do, yet. He's too self aware.

You're right in a way, they're both above DiCaprio's level. They don't always benefit from working with the best scripts and top notch Hollywood directors, but they're almost always convincing in what they play. They can play understated and over the top, they can be leading men and character actors, they have nuance and subtlety (something DiCaprio lacks), they can transform themselves on the outside, but more importantly from within. For example, Bale succeeded in shaking off his 90's image completely. He used to play mellow, shy, very English characters and he was very good, very convincing that you'd think, yes that's his own persona. And he wiped it all out with just one role - Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Now people think he's truly psychotic. You just have to compare his character in Velvet Goldmine to Bateman and wonder if that's the same actor, he feels like two totally different persons. And he did it without make up, he just bulked up for American Psycho.

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