That’s why it’s cool when art inspires new, better art

This sounds like the same kind of debate to be had with someone who always says "the book is better than the movie" whenever a movie adaptation of a book comes out. You dont have to love an original if what it births is it but better.

Also +2 to yorkedaddy for no reason

John Wick's stylization adds a lot to the series as a sort of dumb action flick fantasy epic, but the relatively stripped down grittiness of The Raid serves an entirely different vibe that makes it feel so much more desperate and unpleasant. Both are very similar in some regards but are very different in others but are both still god tier martial arts action movie ****.

I cringe at the thought of your Jon Woo takes.

There are pros to that kind of vibe, I just don't like it as much as the hyperstylized Wick stuff. It's not like I gave the Raid a 0/10 or something. It's a good movie. Just not one of my favorites. Inherently action movies are only like my 5th favorite genre, but I'm still trying to see as many of them as I can. There's only so much time in a day unfortunately

Have you checked out the Crank movies? Crank 2 is in the running for best action movie ever.

I liked the first one better, but both are great.

I was somewhat lukewarm on The Raid as well, but the sequel is incredible.

I actually walked out of that movie after an hour. I went to a REALLY late showing and the first hour wasn't very action packed and I just couldn't stay awake. I have to go back and watch it.

It's such a great movie. It's more of a sprawling crime epic than the first one—in some ways I'd say it's almost a different genre of movie—but it also has probably the craziest fight/car chase scene I've ever seen in my life. To me it was the perfect mix of an organized crime drama like Election with off the rails action.