evolution and humans: nature vs society

OccultHawk · 12-12-2020, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

The most brilliant man to cut your fish.

Church

Lucem Ferre · 12-12-2020, 08:00 PM

TBF my group therapist agreed that the difference is insignificant.

OccultHawk · 12-13-2020, 11:05 AM

This isn’t in the interest of defending my hypothesis

Just a subject of interest with a focus on brain imaging and neuroscience which is where I think the conversation should be held (even if it’s more challenging)

Basically what we have here is evidence that not only does poverty cause health concerns related to stress but that health concerns related to stress also cause poverty creating an inescapable feedback loop

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464202/

Quote:

poverty is associated with poor mental health (Wadsworth et al., Forthcoming), and childhood poverty increases the risk of major depression, conduct disorder, and PTSD in adolescence

Emerging imaging data support links between childhood poverty and anatomical and functional changes in brain areas involved in the induction and regulation of emotion, like the amygdala. The amygdala is engaged in emotional learning, salience and threat detection

All scanning was performed using a Philips 3 T MRI scanner (Phillips Medical Systems, Andover, MA, USA) in the functional MRI laboratory at the VA Ann Arbor.

Given evidence for chronic stress mediating effects of poverty on brain function during emotion regulation in the same cohort (Kim et al., 2013), we also examined association between the measure of chronic stress and our neuroimaging variables.

Results suggest potentially longstanding negative effects of childhood poverty on adult social-emotional perception and signify the importance of prioritizing attempts toward elimination or reduction of this social problem as early in life as possible to prevent these long-lasting effects. Recall that our prospective findings are independent of concurrent adult income

maladaptive behaviors likely trigger further negative feedback from the environment and reinforce the biased social perception in these children. Finally, the current study underlines the importance of childhood family income in predicting neural outcomes in young adults during emotion responses

~~jwb~~ · 12-13-2020, 01:23 PM

I mean that's not at all surprising. I don't disagree at all with what you're saying about brain scans showing an environmental impact. The only disagreement we had was whether it's worth trying to determine if a trait is genetic or being impacted by the environment. Seems like if your study holds up then it's clearly relevant to factor in environmental influences.

For an example of something that is clearly genetic.. eye color.

OccultHawk · 12-13-2020, 01:47 PM

let me try it like this

I think it would be helpful if we switched to language along the lines of “the brain structure was bent with the rest of the environment” to correct the thinking that “the mind” is separate from what it perceives. I believe that switching to language that clearly represents reality will help us drill down directly on the problems

Lucem Ferre · 12-13-2020, 01:55 PM

As above so below.

~~jwb~~ · 12-13-2020, 03:17 PM

The mind and the brain are two different things. And I don't see how your language preference matters at all. Nor do I see it reflected in any of the articles you've linked.

OccultHawk · 12-13-2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

The mind and the brain are two different things. And I don't see how your language preference matters at all. Nor do I see it reflected in any of the articles you've linked.

Ffs I even mentioned it has nothing to do with my hypothesis.

It’s statements like “The mind and the brain are two different things” that make me realize how much work there is that needs to be done even with people who start to hint at understanding. Unless you meant the mind includes the entire nervous system. My fear and disappointment is that what you’re really saying is that consciousness is not literally biological. If that is what you’re saying it’s even worse that I thought.

~~jwb~~ · 12-13-2020, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Ffs I even mentioned it has nothing to do with my hypothesis.

It’s statements like “The mind and the brain are two different things” that make me realize how much work there is that needs to be done even with people who start to hint at understanding. Unless you meant the mind includes the entire nervous system. My fear and disappointment is that what you’re really saying is that consciousness is not literally biological. If that is what you’re saying it’s even worse that I thought.

i have no idea what hypothesis you're even referring to.

As for mind/brain.. Nothing supernatural about it. It's a software/hardware distinction. The mind is an emergent phenomenon of the brain.

OccultHawk · 12-13-2020, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

i have no idea what hypothesis you're even referring to.

As for mind/brain.. Nothing supernatural about it. It's a software/hardware distinction. The mind is an emergent phenomenon of the brain.

Where is the mind located?

12-13-2020, 01:47 PM	#85 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	let me try it like this I think it would be helpful if we switched to language along the lines of “the brain structure was bent with the rest of the environment” to correct the thinking that “the mind” is separate from what it perceives. I believe that switching to language that clearly represents reality will help us drill down directly on the problems __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

12-13-2020, 01:23 PM	#84 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I mean that's not at all surprising. I don't disagree at all with what you're saying about brain scans showing an environmental impact. The only disagreement we had was whether it's worth trying to determine if a trait is genetic or being impacted by the environment. Seems like if your study holds up then it's clearly relevant to factor in environmental influences. For an example of something that is clearly genetic.. eye color.

12-13-2020, 03:17 PM	#87 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	The mind and the brain are two different things. And I don't see how your language preference matters at all. Nor do I see it reflected in any of the articles you've linked.