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right-track 08-22-2005 07:35 AM

Music & Politics.
 
Do you think musicians should be political, or do you think that they should stick to music and leave the politics to the politicians?

pastor of muppets 08-22-2005 07:43 AM

It depends on the motivations I think. For me, Rage Against the Machine being political is good because they are just saying what they think whereas a band such as Greenday (please don't lynch me) trying to be political is bad because they are doing it because it is popular/cool to do. I think that those who generally have very political songs for the right pupose are good and I have no problem with them.

Josephine 08-22-2005 08:43 AM

I agree with pastor.
I think there're only two ways: Being political - or not. If a band decides to be political, they shud get involved with it properly.
I hate all those bands pretending to be political cuz it's so "punk" (what means "en vogue" for the moment). It's NOT enough to produce and cry out half-thought out, banal arguments like "We kinda don't like Bush". If you don't have ANY idea, it's quite better to SHUT THE FUCK UP!
I forgot... who said that: "We're not the Dixie Chicks. We're not going to say: We kinda don't like Bush!..."

phoenixflames 08-22-2005 08:49 AM

I personally don't care for bands getting involved with politics. I hate politics so much as it is, I don't want to have to hear bands talk about it too. It does seem to be quite the popular thing to do now.

All_Nite_Dinah 08-22-2005 09:15 AM

Just because a person plays music dosnt mean they cant be active in politics. Its like saying if you eat cherrios your not allowed to play basketball.

pastor of muppets 08-22-2005 09:18 AM

^ But I think this thread is about whether you agree with music in politics not whether they should be allowed to or not...

IamAlejo 08-22-2005 09:28 AM

I'm mixed. I think that musicians who write music about what they feel is a great thing. But also, most musicians don't pay enough attention in politics to get a valid opinion (i.e. dixie chicks) while others do it to be trendy (green day, etc). I have no problem with having songs about politics though, but when certain musicians go into Norfolk for a concert, and then are talking about how horrid the war is and how stupid Bush is, they should know better than to do it in one of the biggest military areas in the world.

All_Nite_Dinah 08-22-2005 09:30 AM

Do I agree with some right wing neo nazi skinhead band preaching white power under the guise of punk, hell no.

Do I agree with someone preaching fairness and equality under the guise of punk rock, of course!

Its all relative to the situation. Some bands will be active politicaly and change things others wil be entirley counterproductive. Its all completly in the eye of the beholder. But overall I say if you have a band you can do whatever you want with it, I may not agree with any of it but like thats going to stop some band anyway.

Trauma 08-22-2005 11:48 AM

^

:thumb:

[MERIT] 08-22-2005 11:54 AM

i feel that they should definitely stick to music and leave politics to all the douchebags.(not to say that musicians arent douchebags:laughing: )

right-track 08-22-2005 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay
i feel that they should definitely stick to music and leave politics to all the douchebags.(not to say that musicians arent douchebags:laughing: )

What about Live 8 and Live Aid before that?
Without Bob Geldof going all political, how many lives would have been lost if the famine in Africa had have been left to the polititions?

ArtistInTheAmbulance 08-22-2005 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track
What about Live 8 and Live Aid before that?
Without Bob Geldof going all political, how many lives would have been lost if the famine in Africa had have been left to the polititions?

But that was using music to actually make a difference, and a difference that couldnt be argued with. No one could say that wasnt helping, that they were doing that to boost their own sales. Too many musicians have turned being all anti-governent into almost a fashion statement now. Fleh.

adidasss 08-22-2005 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastor of muppets
whereas a band such as Greenday (please don't lynch me) trying to be political is bad because they are doing it because it is popular/cool to do. .

oh god!!...and you know this how?! you're friends with them and they told you?....they are just expressing their opinion of the current political situation, they are obviously intrigued by it and found inspiration from it......for god's sake, stop dissing green day people! just because they changed their sound and they're not "punk" anymore doesn't mean they're not making good music, personally i think american idiot is their best album.....

ArtistInTheAmbulance 08-22-2005 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss
oh god!!...and you know this how?! you're friends with them and they told you?....they are just expressing their opinion of the current political situation, they are obviously intrigued by it and found inspiration from it......for god's sake, stop dissing green day people! just because they changed their sound and they're not "punk" anymore doesn't mean they're not making good music, personally i think american idiot is their best album.....

Personally, I think American Idiot sucks ass. And personally, I also think that they've just jumped on the whole "I HATE BUSH AND ANARCHY ROX MY SOX" thang. How else are they selling more records? To me (and many many others) they're not making better music, all else thats changed is that he now wears eyeliner and sings more about politics.

But anyway, this is NOT another effing Green Day thread.

right-track 08-22-2005 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtistInTheAmbulance
But that was using music to actually make a difference, and a difference that couldnt be argued with. No one could say that wasnt helping, that they were doing that to boost their own sales. Too many musicians have turned being all anti-governent into almost a fashion statement now. Fleh.

I understand what you are saying AITA. That the bands did it for humanitarian reasons and I also agree that too many have jumped on the anti-government bandwagon.
My point is... that Geldof had to apply a lot of pressure on certain governments just to get them on board in the first place.
He virtually had to shame them into action. Governments were largely apathetic at the time (Live Aid) and without his enthusiasm Africa faced a humanitarian disaster.

ArtistInTheAmbulance 08-22-2005 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track
I understand what you are saying AITA. That the bands did it for humanitarian reasons and I also agree that too many have jumped on the anti-government bandwagon.
My point is... that Geldof had to apply a lot of pressure on certain governments just to get them on board in the first place.
He virtually had to shame them into action. Governments were largely apathetic at the time (Live Aid) and without his enthusiasm Africa faced a humanitarian disaster.

Im sure there are plenty of bands who do it to make a difference, and I think its great of them to try it. Only thing is, there are too many bands who are in it purely for the record sales, so there's no real profit for those that really mean it.

But yes, Geldof made a hell of an impact, and good on him for being so persistent.

Ok, after typing all this out several times in order to get some good-lookin English out of it, my answer is so vague it makes no difference anyway. I guess, yeah, musicians should be political, but obviously not for their own needs. Course, there's no way of knowing at all, so the best bet is to let em do it. Some places need all the help they can get, and beggars cant be choosers.


*Sigh* Gimme a break, I had 7 hours of travelling today.

right-track 08-22-2005 04:14 PM

Truth is AITA I'm not even sure that musicians should get involved in politics at all.
That's why I started this thread, as to hopefully cause some lively debate in order to come to a personal conclusion. I guess the answer is'nt going to be black & white. :)

ArtistInTheAmbulance 08-22-2005 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track
I guess the answer is'nt going to be black & white. :)

Exactly. Both good and bad will come from it. The good is obviously, the positive influence it's gonna have on the listeners. The bad, being ignorant kids running around screaming "F*CK THE GOVERNMENT", and bands singing about something they dont particularly care about, just to boost record sales.

hookers with machineguns 08-22-2005 04:28 PM

Not all politically-driven bands are mere "anti-government" toting extremists. Some actually sing and write about specific world issues, which I think in principle is a great thing for any kind of art, regardless of whether there is a political "agenda" or whether I agree or disagree with it. As humans, we're inevitably going to form and discuss opinions/commentary on social and political aspects. As listeners, there's nothing that says we have to agree or even care. There's alot of preachy bands out there, but in most cases, I can still enjoy the music, even if I don't agree (or in some cases fully understand) what their "agenda" is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss
oh god!!...and you know this how?! you're friends with them and they told you?....they are just expressing their opinion of the current political situation, they are obviously intrigued by it and found inspiration from it......for god's sake, stop dissing green day people! just because they changed their sound and they're not "punk" anymore doesn't mean they're not making good music, personally i think american idiot is their best album.....

Brief vague, passing comments on the war and GWB doesn't give me much insight on BJA's "opinion of the current political situation." It's quite similar to those that claim Eminem's last album had efforts of political messages. Saying things like "f*ck Bush" is not political. Even Rock Against Bush seemed like uninspired and uninformed bullying to me.

phoenixflames 08-22-2005 04:35 PM

I think when you boil all of it down, if an artist is into his work and means what they sing about (wether political or not) then that is what is important. Whenever bands just jump on the popularity wagon, then thats when things turn south. And while people may speculate on wether a band has "sold-out" into a particular movement or trend, I think its hard to clearly define if some bands have done this or not. On the other hand, some are glaringly obvious.

People should write songs that they mean and believe in. Thats what music is about. :)

IamAlejo 08-22-2005 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss
oh god!!...and you know this how?! you're friends with them and they told you?....they are just expressing their opinion of the current political situation, they are obviously intrigued by it and found inspiration from it......for god's sake, stop dissing green day people! just because they changed their sound and they're not "punk" anymore doesn't mean they're not making good music, personally i think american idiot is their best album.....

I've got $100 Billy Joel couldn't tell me the last 5 American Presidents in order. Care to take that bet?

Urban Hat€monger ? 08-22-2005 06:00 PM

I don`t mind people writing their political opinions in lyrics.

I do however have a problem with multi millionaire rock stars preaching to me about poverty

Merkaba 08-22-2005 06:10 PM

I think bands should only deal in politics if their music suits it... and obviously understand it.

System of a down for example. The Robin hoods of political critics. Take anti peace, people killing, power hungry decisions and tear them to shreads. Why? Because their music damn well suits it. Hard, brutal and clever, these guys deal with issues that are just that in real life...like war "why dont presidents fight the war why do they send the poor". It is a powerful moral issue that powerhouse music can deal with.

Rage Against The Machine. Their name sez it all. And again, their music suits it. Argumentative, angry, and clever. These guys have the right sound to make music based on politics. They have dark brooding music while Zach winds up his main point for the song, then all hell breaks loose when he screams the accusation. Not all of rages music is good but it is cleverly written and isn't your joe average sneer at presidents or whatever.

hookers with machineguns 08-22-2005 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba
System of a down for example. The Robin hoods of political critics. Take anti peace, people killing, power hungry decisions and tear them to shreads. Why? Because their music damn well suits it. Hard, brutal and clever, these guys deal with issues that are just that in real life...like war "why dont presidents fight the war why do they send the poor". It is a powerful moral issue that powerhouse music can deal with.

I'm no SOAD expert, but that sounds pretty stupid if that's really their message.

Strong political messages aren't just mindlessly bashing the president and the government.

Merkaba 08-22-2005 06:26 PM

yer thats what i was trying to say, im not very good at explaining things however. I didnt mean it had everything to do with the president

....I know what im talking about:banghead: stupid self explanation skills.

Merkaba 08-22-2005 06:32 PM

I was just trying to say their music suits the anger that they sometime express towards politics and government made decisions.

tdoc210 08-22-2005 07:17 PM

ahh never mix goverment with music unless its about overthrowing it

pastor of muppets 08-23-2005 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss
oh god!!...and you know this how?! you're friends with them and they told you?....they are just expressing their opinion of the current political situation, they are obviously intrigued by it and found inspiration from it......for god's sake, stop dissing green day people! just because they changed their sound and they're not "punk" anymore doesn't mean they're not making good music, personally i think american idiot is their best album.....

i said "please dont lynch me".....

but anyway, i think american idiot is alright, and i own it (*shock* *horror*) i was just using it as an example of bands that do that sort of thing... also, its only my opinion, and i fully understand that you dont agree with it, ok? lets all be friends :)

adidasss 08-23-2005 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookers with machineguns
Brief vague, passing comments on the war and GWB doesn't give me much insight on BJA's "opinion of the current political situation." It's quite similar to those that claim Eminem's last album had efforts of political messages. Saying things like "f*ck Bush" is not political. Even Rock Against Bush seemed like uninspired and uninformed bullying to me.

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media.
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind**** America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the ***got America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information nation of hysteria.
It's going out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.

if you're saying that this is vague then RATM lyrics made no sense whatsoever

adidasss 08-23-2005 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo
I've got $100 Billy Joel couldn't tell me the last 5 American Presidents in order. Care to take that bet?

noone's that stupid, even i can do that.....and i'm not even american....

adidasss 08-23-2005 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastor of muppets
i said "please dont lynch me".....

but anyway, i think american idiot is alright, and i own it (*shock* *horror*) i was just using it as an example of bands that do that sort of thing... also, its only my opinion, and i fully understand that you dont agree with it, ok? lets all be friends :)

i'm sorry if i lashed out at you, but when someone says the same thing over and over again, i start to get annoyed, 99% of the people here are convinced they went "political" because it's trendy and i don't see why an artist can't change the style and theme of his lyrics......and this whole, "i hate green day" and "only kiddies listen to green day and think they're "punk" bullshit is really getting on my nerves....if you don't like the music, just say so, don't diss someone just because they're really popular right now and dissing them makes you so ultra cool and punk, cuz you're all "against the mainstream"....

Merkaba 08-23-2005 04:06 AM

It makes slim to f-all sence, It really is an overcooked song. And i dont know how they've done it when they repeat the same verses over and over. Its not like they had to think of a novel, just two verses a chorus and they still overcooked it. They had a simple idea and turned it into rocket science.

Rage talked a lot of crap too but you knew what they were getting at. Peoples rights.
American Idiot is just...what... the f...k...so you..errrrrr....hate America?

[MERIT] 08-23-2005 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track
What about Live 8 and Live Aid before that?
Without Bob Geldof going all political, how many lives would have been lost if the famine in Africa had have been left to the polititions?

if live 8 was so worried about raising $ for africa, all the artist wouldnt have accepted tens of thousands of $'s in goody bags back stage!!! lets give the africans some of that shampagne and caviar!

right-track 08-20-2006 04:17 AM

With a recent show of interest in artists such as Frank Turner and Billy Bragg, I'm going to revive this old thread.

I'm looking for contributions from members such as Fal/Crowquill/LesPaul/RAR
and anyone else who has an opinion on the question...

...Do you think musicians should be political, or do you think that they should stick to music and leave the politics to the politicians?

Alo 08-20-2006 04:24 AM

As long as it goed deeper than ''**** the government, cuz they suck'' I think it's good to express your feelings through music. You can share your thoughts, and maybe win some people to your side. But they shouldn't be singing crap, they have to know what they're talking about.

sleepy jack 08-20-2006 04:25 AM

Yesss, I think they should, I mean whats going to interest the youth in politics more a rockstar or some old dude in a suit?

I'm learning alot from Frank Turner (and right-track =P) about some british things I never knew stuff about. Like not only is it a get your political message out there, it also educates people with I don't think people can get enough of.

I think however, when its mindless political crap it doesn't help much. When its just your typical punk "lolz bush suck! fux t3h goverment anarkee" it becomes crappy. If you actually have something to say fine, if you're jumping on a bandwagon or just preaching about something to fit into a little niche then it becomes a little stupid.

disclaimer: havn't read whole thread, so i'm probaly repeating someone & its 3am if I aint making much sense oh well. I'll tidy this up later.

Blain 08-20-2006 06:12 AM

Although I ussually don't care about the lyrics (If I like the music, I like it screw lyrics) but when bands complain about how their government is sh*t well why the hell don't they try to lead a country with millions of people.

Express ideas all you want, but don't go saying that the governemnt is **** when they do a f*ckin good job under all the pressure.

mosesandtherubberducky 08-20-2006 10:21 AM

I say that if the lyrics they write that do have a message behind them that pertains to politics is thought provoking and makes the mass of their fans want to learn about the topic instead of taking their word for it. Then they should go for it. But bands like Anti-Flag and NOFX have no place is expressing their "opinions" they're just as uneducated as their fans on the topics. RATM had the right idea with their music, it got me to read up on Mumia and socialism and the people division in Mexico. So if it makes you think and want to learn more about the subject then it's good, not if it's like everyone else stated (the whole "fxck teh grnmnt anarkee" crap).

Trauma 08-20-2006 11:39 AM

^

I concur.
Especially RATM supporting the Zapatistas, that's pretty awesome.

TheBig3 08-20-2006 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track
I'm looking for contributions from members such as Fal/Crowquill/LesPaul/RAR
and anyone else who has an opinion on the question...

/insulted

Music is political, politics effects those who exist in a society and usually the world.

Music is often the first thing that kicks starts the revolution. Its history is steeped in politics. Campaigns use music to sell themselves. Sometimes music is used in a campaign to bash their opponent (Tippie Canoe and Tyler too).

Yes it should be intertwined. People who say otherwise just don't like a songs political philosophy.


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