The #metoo thread (sexual assault and/or misconduct discussion)

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

Hard determinism I can get behind, "no free will" in terms of no accountability is nonsense.

We’re evolved to see a lack of free will as counterintuitive so it’s an existential dead end to live as if there’s no free will even though there isn’t. We must ignore the truth and live as if we have free will. And that means holding people accountable for their behavior. We’re a long way off from transitioning into how to deal with matters such as accountability.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

We’re evolved to see a lack of free will as counterintuitive so it’s an existential dead end to live as if there’s no free will even though there isn’t. We must ignore the truth and live as if we have free will. And that means holding people accountable for their behavior. We’re a long way off from transitioning into how to deal with matters such as accountability.

Church. Brains run on math the same as everything else in the universe, and math isn't multiple choice (shut up). To hold a series of algorithms responsible for anything is nonsense but there's no current alternative.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

If youre not looking at this issue through the eyes of how the judicial system should handle it than its not a discussion worth having.

What? Morality isn't worth discussing until it's illegal?

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Frownland

I define it as not being bound to a predetermined fate.

Do you consider "you" to be separate from the brain?

To simplify the conversation and to avoid having to go into every useless caveat I'll just say no.

Since we have no control over even the tiniest of our actions we are obviously bound to a predetermined fate. It was settled and soon as the Big Bang started the universe expanding. Obviously. Unless you think we are of some supernatural property from outside the universe.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

Church. Brains run on math the same as everything else in the universe, and math isn't multiple choice (shut up). To hold a series of algorithms responsible for anything is nonsense but there's no current alternative.

Yeah. I think I remember you understood this when we discussed it before iirc

That’s pleasing to me because it’s so in your face obvious but still so few people seem to get it.

[Oriphiel]

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

Church. Brains run on maths the same as everything else in the universe, and maths isn't multiple choice (shut up). To hold a series of algorithms responsible for anything is nonsense but there's no current alternative.

Edited for our UK friends

[DwnWthVwls]

You forgot:

Brains >>>

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

To hold a series of algorithms responsible for anything is nonsense but there's no current alternative.

What would you do if your computer caught on fire?

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

To simplify the conversation and to avoid having to go into every useless caveat I'll just say no.

Since we have no control over even the tiniest of our actions we are obviously bound to a predetermined fate. It was settled and soon as the Big Bang started the universe expanding. Obviously. Unless you think we are of some supernatural property from outside the universe.

If "we" are our brains, then "we" are the ones controlling our actions. Also, predetermined is not synonymous with predictable.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Frownland

What would you do if your computer caught on fire?

If a computer is on fire you put it out and then either fix it or discard it. But you don't claim that the computer was morally wrong.

If "we" are our brains, then "we" are the ones controlling our actions. Also, predetermined is not synonymous with predictable.

For me to call it freewill you'd have to be able to rewind from a cause and effect to before the cause and find just one instance where the event happened differently. Let's take you walking down the street and you stub your toe, shout "****!", and hop up and down on the other foot three times. Now we replay the incident one billion times to see if you shout "****!" or hop up and down four times or step differently so that you don't stub your toe at all. If that never happens and you do the same exact thing over and over and over then does it make sense to say that you have freewill?

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'm not convinced that because something has a beginning the end is predetermined

I'm not against the idea, I just don't see where the absolute assurance is coming from

what tells you that moment to moment there aren't dice rolls going on

Even a dice roll is predetermined based on how it's thrown, the weight of the dice, what they're landing on, etc.