The queer corner

**Marie Monday** · 12-02-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I have no conception of being able to tell unless there's outward indicators. If you're a trans woman who doesn't quite pass or still has a slightly masculine voice or other characteristics, I can probably tell. If you pass then obviously I can't tell. If you are one of those ambiguous gender queer types I probably just assume you're just a chick with a punk rock haircut.

As far as being able to spot a trans person before they transition.. nah that's out of my realm.

I can spot gays and bis pretty well though whether closeted or not. Like I'm fairly convinced Obama might be bi tbh.

Well like I said, the only way in which I think I have a feeling for someone not being cis is unconsciously picking up a sense of gender struggle or something. It's not something definite so I can't explain very well. I would never openly speculate, or just claim to know that someone is trans.

WWWP · 12-02-2020, 12:41 PM

Yes to everything Marie said.
JWB is right too - the whole point is that gender IS meaningless when you break it down, and that's why we need to untrain ourselves to view people in these x or y categories. Some would argue that their identity makes up a big part of who they are, but tbh if your gender identity is your entire personality you're probably a pretty boring person.

Oh and swap "race" for "heritage" then, if it's tripping you up. Have you ever taken that Smithsonian (I think) test where you guess the race of people? There's another version where you are shown two pictures of different people and it prompts you with a word like "intelligent" or "bad-tempered" and you associate it with one of the two pictures, which then is analyzed and presented as "here are your internal biases" kind of thing. Like people typically will categorize darker skinned black people as more violent, less trustworthy, unattractive, etc., whereas lighter skinned black people are assigned more of the positive traits. Idk if it's still up I took them in college years ago, but it was interesting.

~~jwb~~ · 12-02-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

Yes to everything Marie said.
JWB is right too - the whole point is that gender IS meaningless when you break it down, and that's why we need to untrain ourselves to view people in these x or y categories. Some would argue that their identity makes up a big part of who they are, but tbh if your gender identity is your entire personality you're probably a pretty boring person.

It's only meaningless if you insist there are no characteristics associated with said gender. The association of certain characteristics with a certain gender is what makes gender a thing in the first place.

Quote:

Oh and swap "race" for "heritage" then, if it's tripping you up. Have you ever taken that Smithsonian (I think) test where you guess the race of people? There's another version where you are shown two pictures of different people and it prompts you with a word like "intelligent" or "bad-tempered" and you associate it with one of the two pictures, which then is analyzed and presented as "here are your internal biases" kind of thing. Like people typically will categorize darker skinned black people as more violent, less trustworthy, unattractive, etc., whereas lighter skinned black people are assigned more of the positive traits. Idk if it's still up I took them in college years ago, but it was interesting.

no. I've seen the inherent bias one though but I think the methodology on that was rather dubious.

The Batlord · 12-02-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

It's like trying to guess someone's race. Sure, sometimes you might guess right. But why are you guessing in the first place?

I'll bet Wyoming is one of those states where everyone is running around claiming to be 1/16th Cherokee and Steph still does on the down low.

WWWP · 12-02-2020, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Well like I said, the only way in which I think I have a feeling for someone not being cis is unconsciously picking up a sense of gender struggle or something. It's not something definite so I can't explain very well. I would never openly speculate, or just claim to know that someone is trans.

I know what you mean, it's like tuning in to a shared experience or insecurity or something. Seeing someone struggle with their identity doesn't always automatically mean TRANS or NB but there are definitely gut feelings like "I see you trying on these different costumes and masks, good for you, can't wait until you figure out which one is you" kind of thing.

With Elliot Page, he'd already been an outspoken queer figure, so I can understand why it doesn't take any stretch of the imagination for one to accept that he is genderqueer as well. It's just weird to say "it's not surprising" because who exactly IS surprised? Who has a stake in his identity to the point where this is surprising news? Is it surprising when someone comes out as gay? I don't think so, it just *is.* Like by saying you're not surprised are you trying to show that you're that much more accepting of it? Or that you somehow predicted it? Or that your thumb weighs so heavily on the pulse of queer culture that you have some kind of extra sense that makes you privy to this information? Just a weird thing to say imo.

WWWP · 12-02-2020, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

It's only meaningless if you insist there are no characteristics associated with said gender. The association of certain characteristics with a certain gender is what makes gender a thing in the first place.

That's exactly what's being rejected - there is no certain characteristic that is inherently "male" or "female." There are no real gender roles, we put them upon ourselves. Getting rid of the binary = getting rid of gender = unlearning male v female traits/characteristics/interests/etc.

WWWP · 12-02-2020, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I'll bet Wyoming is one of those states where everyone is running around claiming to be 1/16th Cherokee and Steph still does on the down low.

Lol nah. The whites are proud to be white. I was told growing up that my great grandmother was from the Blackfoot tribe but that turned out to be bull****. I took a DNA test and I am 100% the whitest of whites. No melanin mixed in the bloodline anywhere. I'm all Irish/Scottish and Scandinavian. My family tree pre-mormonism is all Søren Sørensens and Jøren Jørensens.

~~jwb~~ · 12-02-2020, 12:56 PM

I'm rejecting the rejection.

You can't will power your way out of categorizing people intuitively.

WWWP · 12-02-2020, 12:57 PM

Sure you can, lizard brain.

Lucem Ferre · 12-02-2020, 12:57 PM

I'd be surprised of Joe Rogan came out as trans.

12-02-2020, 12:56 PM	#778 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I'm rejecting the rejection. You can't will power your way out of categorizing people intuitively.