The queer corner

Zhanteimi · 08-06-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Being a minority

pfffft

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

I was adressing both usages, and how no matter which usage people try to argue with, their arguments are still flawed.

In terms of "natural" being a following of naturally occuring behavior, everything humans do is part of that behavior. The towers we build, cars we drive, sex we crave, are all as natural as ants building hills.

And in terms of "natural" being what people should do, an arbitrary state of selective simplicity/innocence, it's incredibly hypocritical for people reaping the benefits of modern science and technology to draw moral lines in the sand against nonviolent things that are as fundamentally valid as other consensual lifestyle choices. Religious extremism has harmed far more people than homosexuality ever will, yet fundamentalists never seem to think of violent zealotry as "unnatural".

Not what people "should" do, more the generalized commonality among a species. Eating paint chips is not natural human behavior just because some human decides to do it, even with this technicality argument youre trying to use. Do you plan to argue that a lion and an antelope raised in captivity who form a non-predator/prey relationship is natural?

Homosexuality is natural. People who use it in the way your describing are being dishonest.

**Frownland** · 08-06-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Not what people "should" do, more the generalized commonality among a species. Eating paint chips is not natural just because some human decides to do it, it's not natural human behavior not even with this technicality argument youre trying to use. Homosexuality is natural. People who use it in the way your describing are being dishonest.

You're confusing common with natural.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 08-06-2018, 09:27 AM

Why are we discussing whether it's natural and why does it matter?

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 09:27 AM

No i'm not. Ori is misusing the common usage of the word. I already conceited for discussion sake I understand his points, but that's not how natural is used colloquially or scientifically.

**Frownland** · 08-06-2018, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

No i'm not. Ori is misusing the common usage of the word. I already conceited for discussion sake I understand his points, but that's not how natural is used colloquially or scientifically.

Not the best way to contradict someone who's saying that the word natural is commonly used incorrectly, is it?

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 09:30 AM

Yeah, anthropology totally ignores those things. What was I thinking?

Key · 08-06-2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Almost entirely sure she was being ironic, dudes.

I figured she was joking as well. Though I'm still pretty confused as to why people have to debate whether or not this thread has to exist. Who cares? Adidasss wanted a queer corner thread, let him have it. We usually never have problems with people creating their own personal threads, but it being about homosexuality seems to have people's panties in a twist.

DwnWthVwls · 08-06-2018, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Not the best way to contradict someone who's saying that the word natural is commonly used incorrectly, is it?

Cool than make an argument against the question I posed in my edit:

Do you plan to argue that a lion and an antelope raised in captivity who form a non-predator/prey relationship is natural?

Chiomara · 08-06-2018, 09:33 AM

So does anyone else think that Taylor Swift is secretly a lesbian/professional beard? I get major gay vibes from her, in part due to her whole PR narrative (especially when comparing her to Chely Wright, the previously closeted country singer)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Here's something I've been thinking about lately if you guys want to discuss it:

How much does someone's sexual orientation affect their personality? Like, if you suddenly realized that you want to start experimenting, or deep down you want to switch genders, and so on, how much do you think it would change the core of your person?

I know that a lot of bisexual women (for instance) -- at least the younger ones-- will temporarily feel the need to change their appearance (I know you said personality, but I figure it's worth mentioning) so that other bisexual/gay women don't assume they're straight. "Bi invisibility," they call it. So they'll get a bad asymmetrical haircut and start wearing more plaid and have a Tegan & Sara phase or whatever. I can only speak for other women, but I know that realizing you're gay or bi can also cause you to reexamine and change your behavior to a degree-- I wouldn't say one's core personality changes but it can definitely change your behavior and make you suddenly hyper-aware of things like performative femininity and greatly reduce your willingness to participate in such things. I feel like things can get especially muddled and confusing for bisexuals, since we get demonized a lot and accused of merely experimenting before ultimately settling down with a man. But butch lesbians (for instance) definitely have it worse in terms of public misconceptions and such, even within the lgbt community.

And then there's the asexuals who still desire romantic relationships with those of the same sex; many lgbt people believe that if you do not actually have sex with those of the same sex, you can't call yourself gay/lesbian. I've always wondered how one should identify if, say, you're basically asexual, in part due to past sexual trauma, but can experience romantic love for the same sex, but do not wish to have sex (for whatever reason if not simple sex aversion/disinterest) despite wanting to be physically close/intimate with them in other romantic but non-sexual ways. Seems to be a lot of disagreement around the issue within the online communities I've lurked in.

But anyway, I think it partly depends on the level of aggressive social conditioning/repression that one experiences growing up; if one doesn't fully/consciously realize they're gay or bi till they're in their 20s or older then yes, I think that could very well change a core part of their personality upon accepting it-- or rather, a false part of our persona dies, one that was created in order to survive peacefully in bigoted small towns/closed-minded or abusive families or what-have-you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

But here's my real question that I've been leading up to:

Was the movie Chasing Amy an awful and bigoted piece of trash, or was it actually a pretty smart look at problems that we all have to this day? People always **** on it because the girl (who identifies as a lesbian) ends up falling in love with a guy. They see it as some sort of commentary that all lesbians are just pretending, or something like that.

But I think the point was that sexual orientation isn't always clear cut. People always say "Being gay isn't a choice", and that's certainly true for some people, but for others, it takes a lot of experimentation before they really figure out who/what they want from life. And yet so many people, both LGBT and straight, look down on people who are unsure, especially when they say they're one orientation but then change their mind. They look at them like they're a traitor, or a faker, or something, when they're just trying to figure out what's what.

So, like, is the movie actually kinda insightful in that way? Did people misunderstand it?

I very much agree with the bolded part.

I don't actually remember much of the movie at all, but I recall not being too fond of it since I for one am tired of lesbians being written as confused bisexuals. I mean, it's just a movie-- I think the storyline is a bit dumb but I wouldn't say it's a ~commentary really. Lesbians ultimately realizing they're bisexual and vice versa-- it does happen, just not usually in the way it's depicted in tv and movies. A much more common story in real life is a gay person being strung along by their straight-but-bi-curious friend and getting hurt.

And then in other movies (including those written by women) you've got the Doomed Lesbians trope where one either dies or suffers horribly at the end and the other starts dating a man or whatever. The LGBT movies on netflix are a trainwreck for the most part. (I really wanted to like Blue Is the Warmest Color, but in the end it was just your average indie mumblecore type film but with lesbian sex thrown in. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn't amazing)

Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

08-06-2018, 09:27 AM	#64 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Why are we discussing whether it's natural and why does it matter?