The queer corner

Lisnaholic · 10-19-2020, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

ooh I accidentally skipped his wise advice because I thougt it was signature!
In my case there's no need to worry though; my grandfather recently wrote up my family history in a 800 page book with family trees and all. It was a very interesting read actually.

The Batlord · 10-19-2020, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I avoid handing out unwanted old-timer's advice on MB, but if I were to say anything, it would include this:
All you young-uns ! Ask about your family history, because one day you will be the custodians of it. Find out from your (grand)parents and draw a family tree. If you don't, that information will just disappear; it will cease to be available. So write it down, even if it's boring to you today. You, or someone else may find it interesting tomorrow.

How many times can you write "Was an asshole" next to someone's name before you get fed up?

~~jwb~~ · 10-19-2020, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons

Speaking only for myself here: I have always known I was bisexual, in that I have had romantic/sexual attraction to both sexes throughout my life. I've known and felt it strongly despite the fact that I’ve never engaged in same-sex “experimentation” (I was married to a man for many years, was with him since age 19 and did not have any sex before then, and was monogamous during the marriage). I don’t think one necessarily has to “experiment” to come to the conclusion that that one is bisexual. You can be bisexual and know that you are bisexual without having acted on it. Just as some people can realize they are straight, gay, or lesbian before having sexual relations. I think it’s a very common misconception that most bisexuals are actually heterosexuals who are just experimenting. Granted, there are certainly people for whom bisexual behavior is experimental; but bisexuality is a legitimate sexual orientation for others – and that’s the way it is for me.

Fair enough

I wasn't trying to imply that bisexuals are necessarily not able to be sure of their sexuality from an early age, though I can see in retrospect how it might've sounded like that.

With regard to experimentation...I would question your assertion there a bit. I don't think virtually anyone develops into sexual maturity without doing some experimenting that shapes their trajectory. Marie's example only adds to my point imo... Experimenting with boys and not liking it is very much still experimenting that shapes your current conception of your sexuality. Not all experiments are successful... Otherwise it wouldn't be an experiment. Imo.

ribbons · 10-19-2020, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

There was.

I agree with Lisna, Marie - perfectly chosen GIF and Bishop poem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Elizabeth Bishop is my latest poetry obsession. I think she appeals to me because her poetry reminds me a bit of mathematics: it's a dense language putting a lot of meaning into small bits of text, sometimes requiring a lot of digging to find it. The funny things is that the method of condensing is opposite: in mathematics it's done by making language efficient and unambiguous, but I guess poetry uses the ambiguity of language to add meaning. Also I'm probably not the first to wonder about this, but maybe the habit of hiding sexual identity and emotions played a role in Elizabeth Bishop's habit of hiding personal feelings in clever imagery. Anyway, that's more fitting for the poetry thread

I’ve read very few Elizabeth Bishop poems, unfortunately – time to remedy that. Your analysis of Bishop makes me think of Emily Dickinson, whose poetry is likewise highly condensed and cognitively challenging. In the world of female poets (or poets in general) I’m still incredibly stuck on Dickinson and Sylvia Plath. No others speak to me as they do.

On topic with this thread, another of my favorite poets -- who happened to be gay -- is Hart Crane.

Quote:

from Crane’s “The Broken Tower”:

And so it was I entered the broken world
To trace the visionary company of love, its voice
An instant in the wind (I know not whither hurled)
But not for long to hold each desperate choice.

Quote:

Crane’s “Chaplinesque” (I love the image of the kitten)

We make our meek adjustments,
Contented with such random consolations
As the wind deposits
In slithered and too ample pockets.

For we can still love the world, who find
A famished kitten on the step, and know
Recesses for it from the fury of the street,
Or warm torn elbow coverts.

We will sidestep, and to the final smirk
Dally the doom of that inevitable thumb
That slowly chafes its puckered index toward us,
Facing the dull squint with what innocence
And what surprise!

And yet these fine collapses are not lies
More than the pirouettes of any pliant cane;
Our obsequies are, in a way, no enterprise.
We can evade you, and all else but the heart:
What blame to us if the heart live on.

The game enforces smirks; but we have seen
The moon in lonely alleys make
A grail of laughter of an empty ash can,
And through all sound of gaiety and quest
Have heard a kitten in the wilderness.

ribbons · 10-19-2020, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Fair enough

I wasn't trying to imply that bisexuals are necessarily not able to be sure of their sexuality from an early age, though I can see in retrospect how it might've sounded like that.

With regard to experimentation...I would question your assertion there a bit. I don't think virtually anyone develops into sexual maturity without doing some experimenting that shapes their trajectory. Marie's example only adds to my point imo... Experimenting with boys and not liking it is very much still experimenting that shapes your current conception of your sexuality. Not all experiments are successful... Otherwise it wouldn't be an experiment. Imo.

Fair enough, jwb - and your points are well taken and appreciated. Maybe when the nest here is empty again I'll have the freedom and privacy to fully enjoy a new relationship, if I should meet the right person, whether they be female or male. It would have to be in the context of a committed relationship.

~~jwb~~ · 10-19-2020, 07:11 PM

Yeh you and I are clearly very different cases lol

I don't even necessarily rule out that I was always bi and it just took certain experiences to trigger the realization.... But ituituvely it feels more like a sort of fetish... Like I don't even want to date most of the women I'm attracted to, let alone men. The romantic **** and sex are completely divorced in my case.

**Marie Monday** · 10-20-2020, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Fair enough

I wasn't trying to imply that bisexuals are necessarily not able to be sure of their sexuality from an early age, though I can see in retrospect how it might've sounded like that.

With regard to experimentation...I would question your assertion there a bit. I don't think virtually anyone develops into sexual maturity without doing some experimenting that shapes their trajectory. Marie's example only adds to my point imo... Experimenting with boys and not liking it is very much still experimenting that shapes your current conception of your sexuality. Not all experiments are successful... Otherwise it wouldn't be an experiment. Imo.

I don't really think so. I did experiment, but if I hadn't I still would have known I was gay. Or do you mean it more subtle than that? Because of course even if you know your sexuality already, the experimenting does still contribute something, that's true

~~jwb~~ · 10-20-2020, 07:08 AM

You might be right. I mean something compelled you to experiment in the first place. It was probably more to confirm to yourself that you're gay rather than to try to change it.

I guess I might be projecting based on my own experience a bit. I do believe people feel attraction towards one sex or the other or both before they ever experiment. I just also think it's possible to discover an attraction through experimentation. The same way that most sexual fetishes etc develop.

**Marie Monday** · 10-20-2020, 08:08 AM

To be honest I think the reason for my experimenting was mostly curiosity about sexual experience in general. I knew I wouldn't come out until after high school and I wasn't going to sit around completely inexperienced until that time. Finding out what kissing a guy was like was a bonus. But what you're saying makes sense

The Batlord · 10-20-2020, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Finding out what kissing a guy was like was a bonus.

Oh it was was it?

10-19-2020, 07:11 PM	#566 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Yeh you and I are clearly very different cases lol I don't even necessarily rule out that I was always bi and it just took certain experiences to trigger the realization.... But ituituvely it feels more like a sort of fetish... Like I don't even want to date most of the women I'm attracted to, let alone men. The romantic **** and sex are completely divorced in my case.

10-20-2020, 07:08 AM	#568 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	You might be right. I mean something compelled you to experiment in the first place. It was probably more to confirm to yourself that you're gay rather than to try to change it. I guess I might be projecting based on my own experience a bit. I do believe people feel attraction towards one sex or the other or both before they ever experiment. I just also think it's possible to discover an attraction through experimentation. The same way that most sexual fetishes etc develop.