The queer corner

~~jwb~~ · 07-08-2022, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx

There’s some truth in what you say but for me the central issue is consent. Can, for instance, a ten year old, male or female, consent to having sex with an adult of either sex fully knowing what they’re getting themselves involved in?

My perspective is one people have argued with but I can’t get my head around the idea a young pre-pubescent child being regarded as a sexual being. Sensual maybe but sexual? So, even though my sex life started at 14 I just can’t agree with the idea of an adult seducing someone pre-pubescent. There’s another issue here seldom discussed. Today, young girls are entering pubescence far earlier than ever before due to chemicals polluting our environment triggering precocious development.

I don't actually believe that the way we even refer to consent in these cases has anything to do with desire to have sex, which is why it's counter intuitive. It only has to do with whether we deem you capable of responsibly making such a decision, which is a completely arbitrary standard we have set because we want to extend childhood another 10 years.

12 -14 year old brides was normal up until recently so the idea that these kids are biologically or mentally incapable of handling sex is a pretty recent invention. I do think they're probably better off being protected in this way... But then if we are perfectly honest there are definitely going to be people over the age of 20 who realistically would also be better off avoiding it.

However, people have sex drives. And I don't know about anyone else here but I think 14 years old was probably the horniest age of my life. I think everyone accepts that teenage sex with other teens is going to happen. We only bring consent in when an adult is involved because it's just about protecting them from predators really it's not actually about consenting to sex itself.

Cause if you are going to say the sex might traumatize them at that age then it stands to reason that sex with other teens also might traumatize them. We wouldn't let 6 year old have sex as long as it was with other 6 year olds, but we do this with teens because we realize intrinsically that they are sexual beings and we are attempting to suppress that or put it back in the box until we're ready to deal with it at age 18.

The Batlord · 07-08-2022, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

No, children can not consent. Well, they technically can by saying "yes, let's bang", but the principle that any consent a child gives is invalid is something I feel is very important. Also, they can't vote and they're full of shit.

In theory, something like a mutually beneficial / pleasurable sexual relationship could exist between adult and child (yuck). But the capacity for the child to understand the extent of what they're getting into is likely not great and the opportunity for the adult to take advantage / exploit / cause suffering is far too great. Children are vulnerable and need to be protected.

I'm pretty much a utilitarian, but I feel like the best and simplest way to deal with the issue is ofc to make it illegal. Not only does that help us avoid bad situations, but I think the general principles that it fosters in the minds and hearts of people will help reduce suffering in the world, even if it smothers the rare possibility of a mutually beneficial/functioning adult/child sexual relationship.

edit:

By the way, I read Pamela Des Barres' autobiography I'm With The Band about the groupie scene around LA in the 60s/early 70s and.. man does it seem like there was a lot of pedophilia going on. Hey, teacher. Leave 'em dicks alone!

SGR · 07-08-2022, 02:20 PM

It's Voosh!

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 07-08-2022, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx

There’s some truth in what you say but for me the central issue is consent. Can, for instance, a ten year old, male or female, consent to having sex with an adult of either sex fully knowing what they’re getting themselves involved in?

My perspective is one people have argued with but I can’t get my head around the idea a young pre-pubescent child being regarded as a sexual being. Sensual maybe but sexual? So, even though my sex life started at 14 I just can’t agree with the idea of an adult seducing someone pre-pubescent. There’s another issue here seldom discussed. Today, young girls are entering pubescence far earlier than ever before due to chemicals polluting our environment triggering precocious development.

I knew something was wrong with me when I was 5-6 and me and another girl showed each other's lady bits to each other. Then from age 11-12 I was extremely horny, masturbating etc. I told my friends that I used a brush

and they told me that's disgusting and embarrassing. I first had sex with a guy who was 18 while I was 15. He couldn't even get it in. I realise now how wrong that was for him to do this. Legally he was an adult. Then for some reason he made up a lie that I had told people we had sex. I got bullied, my friends deserted me for a) not telling them what happened and b) that they thought I was a liar. In the end his best friend Ange told me he told her the truth and she made sure everyone knew. As an adolescent that was the most humiliating thing and to have my friends hate me for it was unbearable.

Moral of the story, this was about 2002-3 and at this time I was very sexually awakened. Got to 2004 and I went to a party and made out with a girl who I really liked. She didn't remember the next day so I kept it to myself. I told my best friend that I think I'm bi. She was pretty sweet about it but I felt so ashamed as no one at my school was 'out'. Ironically a girl from my school tried outing me in front of the entire girls locker room calling me a **** and a lesbian and I had to tell the Dean who then forced her to admit she made it up. She came out as lesbian just after we graduated. That's how I learnt about projecting when someone bullies you for something. By 2005 (year of my high school graduation) I was very attractive and caught the attention of a 'popular' guy at my school. We flirted all year but he could never go through with dating me as I was not 'popular'.

Sorry, I am going on and on but it feels nice to share things with you all.

Ayn Marx · 07-08-2022, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina

I knew something was wrong with me when I was 5-6 and me and another girl showed each other's lady bits to each other. Then from age 11-12 I was extremely horny, masturbating etc. I told my friends that I used a brush

and they told me that's disgusting and embarrassing. I first had sex with a guy who was 18 while I was 15. He couldn't even get it in. I realise now how wrong that was for him to do this. Legally he was an adult. Then for some reason he made up a lie that I had told people we had sex. I got bullied, my friends deserted me for a) not telling them what happened and b) that they thought I was a liar. In the end his best friend Ange told me he told her the truth and she made sure everyone knew. As an adolescent that was the most humiliating thing and to have my friends hate me for it was unbearable.

Moral of the story, this was about 2002-3 and at this time I was very sexually awakened. Got to 2004 and I went to a party and made out with a girl who I really liked. She didn't remember the next day so I kept it to myself. I told my best friend that I think I'm bi. She was pretty sweet about it but I felt so ashamed as no one at my school was 'out'. Ironically a girl from my school tried outing me in front of the entire girls locker room calling me a **** and a lesbian and I had to tell the Dean who then forced her to admit she made it up. She came out as lesbian just after we graduated. That's how I learnt about projecting when someone bullies you for something. By 2005 (year of my high school graduation) I was very attractive and caught the attention of a 'popular' guy at my school. We flirted all year but he could never go through with dating me as I was not 'popular'.

Sorry, I am going on and on but it feels nice to share things with you all.

No apology needed - you’ve opened my eyes to a problem I thought only manifested in males - the sanctity of so called masculinity and all that twaddle.

You’ve reminded me of Queen Victoria’s attitude when it was suggested female/female sexuality should be made illegal along with the male/male kind. She didn’t see the point given she simply couldn’t imagine what two women could do with each other. Someone should have taken her aside & given her a demonstration.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 07-08-2022, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx

No apology needed - you’ve opened my eyes to a problem I thought only manifested in males - the sanctity of so called masculinity and all that twaddle.

You’ve reminded me of Queen Victoria’s attitude when it was suggested female/female sexuality should be made illegal along with the male/male kind. She didn’t see the point given she simply couldn’t imagine what two women could do with each other. Someone should have taken her aside & given her a demonstration.

As time has gone by, I have gained a huge respect for you Ayn. Is it true she though two women would just be scissoring? Why do people event think that lol.

Ayn Marx · 07-08-2022, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina

As time has gone by, I have gained a huge respect for you Ayn. Is it true she though two women would just be scissoring? Why do people event think that lol.

You’ve no idea where my twisted brain first took me when I read ‘scissoring’.

As to why women thought that way its possible the common Victorian idea women shouldn’t demonstrably enjoy sex had something to do with it. On that score Queen Victoria could have enlightened them given we now know she was ( how does one say this?) dedicated to the bedroom mazurka.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 07-09-2022, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayn Marx

You’ve no idea where my twisted brain first took me when I read ‘scissoring’.

As to why women thought that way its possible the common Victorian idea women shouldn’t demonstrably enjoy sex had something to do with it. On that score Queen Victoria could have enlightened them given we now know she was ( how does one say this?) dedicated to the bedroom mazurka.

I hope your brain could reset after that! Yeah that makes sense, but was Victoria into women as well?

Ayn Marx · 07-09-2022, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celladorina

I hope your brain could reset after that! Yeah that makes sense, but was Victoria into women as well?

No, she didn’t think women could ‘do that’. It’s the reason the legislation making male/male sex in Victorian England didn’t include women/women sexual acts. Victoria just couldn’t imagine what women could do for/to each other. As I remarked previously, one of her ladies in waiting could have generously demonstrated women could indeed give each other pleasure outside her limited understanding. However, given Victoria’s appetites lord knows what that could have unleashed.

~~jwb~~ · 07-09-2022, 10:05 PM

Maybe she was on the DL. "I can't imagine lesbian sex" feels like a pretty convenient excuse to keep it legal.

07-08-2022, 02:20 PM	#1463 (permalink)
SGR No Ice In My Bourbon Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: /dev/null Posts: 4,326	It's Voosh!

07-09-2022, 10:05 PM	#1470 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Maybe she was on the DL. "I can't imagine lesbian sex" feels like a pretty convenient excuse to keep it legal.