The queer corner

The Batlord · 06-09-2022, 10:42 PM

Look I wouldn't expect an accountant to understand art.

Queen Boo · 06-09-2022, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

What, deadnaming and misgendering and using the f-word or the disagreement in that this was done "in character". Question, can any white person in music use the n-word "in character"?

Yes, Randy Newman did it with the song Rednecks, it's sung from the perspective of a southerner calling out liberal hypocrisy on racism.

But that was the 70s which was a very different time, it wouldn't fly today regardless of intent and Randy rarely performs it.

I can't say I agree with people who think context doesn't matter and it raises eyebrows from me when people say that but also have no problem with black people using the N word because by doing that they're accepting that context does indeed matter, they're just picking and choosing which contexts they think are acceptable and which they do not.

Ayn Marx · 06-10-2022, 12:42 AM

A single thread for all matters gay? Seems to me this topic has far, far too many facets to be restricted to a single thead. Including say, homophopia in religion, same sex relations in the military, gay/lesbian etc literature, legal prohibitions and punishments through the ages, bi-sexuality, homosexuality in the clergy - - - the list could go on.

As to no problem with black people using the N word I can somehow understand that given I'm very happy to inform homphobes I’m a poofta and proud of it. Having said that having a martial arts background helps for obvious reasons.

adidasss · 06-10-2022, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Boo

Yes, Randy Newman did it with the song Rednecks, it's sung from the perspective of a southerner calling out liberal hypocrisy on racism.

But that was the 70s which was a very different time, it wouldn't fly today regardless of intent and Randy rarely performs it.

Exactly. So today, in 2022, are there any mainstream white artists who would dare to use the n-word in any context whatsoever in their music? I think the answer is nope, none. Why? And why do we have a straight artist deliberately using the f-word repeatedly in his song? What is the difference? The irony is that he works towards the same point at the end of the song, and yet choses not to take the advice anyway. To me that sounds like a deliberate provocation. It's saying, yeah people might be offended but I don't care. Which only a dickhead would do. :/

**Marie Monday** · 06-10-2022, 06:09 AM

That's not what he's doing. He's illustrating the kind of behaviour of someone who thinks he understands and is a good ally but isn't, and then showing he's not by depicting his trans relatives being uncomfortable around him and pointing out his hypocrisy. So instead of saying 'i got this advice but now I'm doing this anyway, it's ok because I mean well, congrats to all the flawed allies for trying' he's holding up a critical mirror to that behaviour by saying 'this is what I did, and what many other people do thinking they're being good allies, but here's why that's not true'. He takes the advice. Using the word ***got in a song for illustrative purposes is not the same as calling someone a ***got.

And about white people doing the same with the word ******: the fact that Randy Newman is not cancelled does show that the two things above are not the same. And sure, nowadays even that song would be sensitive, but that's just because ****** is considered a more severe slur than ***got. We've debated that before and you may think that's unfair, but it's true. And I'm really not an expert on slurs in the English language but I think that's grounded in history

adidasss · 06-10-2022, 09:28 AM

I think that's a way more complex interpretation of the song than I think comes out of any straightforward reading, but to each their own.

And yes we've debated that before (and covered history as well) and I still don't see why the two words should be treated differently. For me the only difference is that black people have managed to fight for their position to be heard and taken seriously, queer people obviously have a ways to go. :/

**Frownland** · 06-10-2022, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

I think that's a way more complex interpretation of the song than I think comes out of any straightforward reading, but to each their own.

I know you have a hard time taking black people seriously but Kendrick is known for his complexity.

**Marie Monday** · 06-10-2022, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

I think that's a way more complex interpretation of the song than I think comes out of any straightforward reading, but to each their own.

And yes we've debated that before (and covered history as well) and I still don't see why the two words should be treated differently. For me the only difference is that black people have managed to fight for their position to be heard and taken seriously, queer people obviously have a ways to go. :/

Oh man the position of black people on their discrimination does not get heard a lot of the time, just like for LGBT people. And the severity of a slur is not necessarily proportional to the discrimination that that group of people faces

The Batlord · 06-10-2022, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Exactly. So today, in 2022, are there any mainstream white artists who would dare to use the n-word in any context whatsoever in their music? I think the answer is nope, none. Why? And why do we have a straight artist deliberately using the f-word repeatedly in his song? What is the difference? The irony is that he works towards the same point at the end of the song, and yet choses not to take the advice anyway. To me that sounds like a deliberate provocation. It's saying, yeah people might be offended but I don't care. Which only a dickhead would do. :/

This isn't just any ol' context. It would be the equivalent of Ed Sheeran saying he used to call black people ******s but has now seen the error of his ways, which would be a hell of a trick to pull off but I'd bump that ****.

Queen Boo · 06-10-2022, 05:08 PM

We should be at least a little sympathetic to anyone who addresses their homophobia and transphobia even if they don't do it in the most graceful way.

And we're talking about hip hop here, a genre of music that has had serious issues with homophobia and transphobia throughout most of it's existence, that the most acclaimed rapper of this generation is addressing it at all should be considered a good thing.

06-10-2022, 12:42 AM	#1303 (permalink)
Ayn Marx Music Addict Join Date: May 2022 Location: Sometimes Posts: 552	A single thread for all matters gay? Seems to me this topic has far, far too many facets to be restricted to a single thead. Including say, homophopia in religion, same sex relations in the military, gay/lesbian etc literature, legal prohibitions and punishments through the ages, bi-sexuality, homosexuality in the clergy - - - the list could go on. As to no problem with black people using the N word I can somehow understand that given I'm very happy to inform homphobes I’m a poofta and proud of it. Having said that having a martial arts background helps for obvious reasons. Last edited by Ayn Marx; 06-10-2022 at 03:00 AM.

06-10-2022, 09:28 AM	#1306 (permalink)
adidasss Slavic gay sauce Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 7,993	I think that's a way more complex interpretation of the song than I think comes out of any straightforward reading, but to each their own. And yes we've debated that before (and covered history as well) and I still don't see why the two words should be treated differently. For me the only difference is that black people have managed to fight for their position to be heard and taken seriously, queer people obviously have a ways to go. :/ __________________ “Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle. Last.fm