Your ftfy quote was exactly, word for word, what I was thinking when I saw his initial post. :laughing:

my undersranding of it is more that God's standards are so uncompromising that it's impossible for a human to live up to them because we have free will.

Thus humans need to be washed in the blood of Christ (who was a perfect person and thus the ultimate sacrificial victim) to redeem us of our sins.

I think the entire notion of moral progress is antithetical to the biblical narrative. There is God's perfect moral standard and then there is the flawed and inevitable human deviations from that standard.

I started listening to discipline and punish at work and it's interesting but it seems like what he's describing is still progress from my point of view

Regardless of what the motives that you ascribe to the state for reforming... That doesn't undermine the progress that was made

Or it's impossible because we don't have free will and are destined to sin.

Yea there is the calvinist approach

But in either case there is no ambiguity about what is right or wrong. There's God's perfect standard and then there's humanity's failure to live up to it/willful rebellion against it.

That's why the idea of moral progress is antithetical to the biblical narrative. Because in the beginning, before the fall, everything was perfect. There is no room for progress when you start with perfection.

Then humanity fell from grace and from there on the biblical narrative is God reminding humans what is right and what they should do, and them falling short again and again.

Then Christ comes to offer redemption to those who want it and is crucified for humanity's sins. When he's supposed to come back, things will only have gotten worse.

Christianity is largely not about making a better life on earth. It's an apocalyptic cult that puts it's hope in the afterlife.

That's why they have the concept of Christ's forgiveness. Nobody really has to live up to it, you just have to grovel it Christ's feet begging. Unless you blasphemed him or denied him as your god. Those two things are unforgivable.

Actually, I heard the apocalyptic imagery of the rapture isn't actually biblical and is just an extremely modern interpretation based mostly on cinematic appeal.

Why'd you quote me before the edit pal

It was God's plan.

read the book of revelations and get back to me