Unpopular Opinions

~~jwb~~ · 09-25-2019, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Let me try once more to make my idea clear. Deciding to bring another human being into this world is not something that anyone has the right to do. And if you decide to do it you owe that person something and have no right to demand any kind of gratitude for it because they did not consent. You brought that person into the world for your own reasons that have nothing to do with them.

And if you agree to this world that considers it right and correct for someone else to bring someone else into this world then you owe that second person something as well and have no right to demand any effort from them because they did not consent to be here but you did consent to their being forced to be here and you did so for your own reasons that have nothing to do with them.

If you consider it legitimate for people to have children then you owe those children something more than just an opportunity to be happy. You owe them your best shot at making them happy.

TFW you're too left wing for OH.

but following the logic money can't make them happy, what exactly do we owe them?

Even if you have a kid... You can try to teach them how to live, you can try to equip them to make themselves happy. But you can never guarantee it.

Especially since a truly functional and happy adult probably also needs to be self sufficient. If they are perpetually dependant on someone else for a decent existence they are no more than just human pets.

And pet ownership is immoral.

The Batlord · 09-25-2019, 05:51 PM

Hence...

Quote:

Deciding to bring another human being into this world is not something that anyone has the right to do.

~~jwb~~ · 09-25-2019, 05:56 PM

Yeh I disagree. I'm familiar with the anti natalist argument I just never found it compelling. The idea of a universe with no life sounds so dreary and meaningless to me and yet to them that is the ideal world. I'm glad to be alive.

The Batlord · 09-25-2019, 06:02 PM

Would you say that a suicidal paranoid schizophrenic would have cause to be angry with their parents simply for having given birth to them?

**Frownland** · 09-25-2019, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Would you say that a suicidal paranoid schizophrenic would have cause to be angry with their parents simply for having given birth to them?

~~jwb~~ · 09-25-2019, 06:07 PM

Nah I think their parents were just doing what organisms do. What all organisms are designed to do. So if they were being fair about it they would understand their parents weren't omniscient creators but simple animals. And if they really wanted to die, well I'm sure they could arrange to make that happen.

The Batlord · 09-25-2019, 06:09 PM

Could they be bitter at having parents who were such basic animals that they couldn't recognize their programming for what it was?

~~jwb~~ · 09-25-2019, 06:12 PM

It really depends.

If the parents are being overtly reckless and ignoring something like some genetic defect they have or some other reason not to have a kid, maybe. But if they were just otherwise normal people who for whatever reason got an unlucky roll of the dice it doesn't seem very reasonable to hold that against them.

The Batlord · 09-25-2019, 06:24 PM

"Overtly reckless" could conceivably apply to anyone having children.

~~jwb~~ · 09-25-2019, 06:34 PM

Yeh but that's not how I meant it. I mean to me it's overly reckless to knowingly have kids you can't support or like I said if there's an abnormally high likelihood of some illness/defect that will severely **** the kid's life up.

If nobody had kids there would be no people. I think it's worth it to risk some pain just to keep the whole phenomenon of consciousness going. Like i said, to someone who values the cessation of suffering above everything else, the moon is a utopia. To me it's a big boring worthless rock. I value life.

09-25-2019, 05:56 PM	#843 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Yeh I disagree. I'm familiar with the anti natalist argument I just never found it compelling. The idea of a universe with no life sounds so dreary and meaningless to me and yet to them that is the ideal world. I'm glad to be alive.

09-25-2019, 06:07 PM	#846 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Nah I think their parents were just doing what organisms do. What all organisms are designed to do. So if they were being fair about it they would understand their parents weren't omniscient creators but simple animals. And if they really wanted to die, well I'm sure they could arrange to make that happen.

09-25-2019, 06:12 PM	#848 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	It really depends. If the parents are being overtly reckless and ignoring something like some genetic defect they have or some other reason not to have a kid, maybe. But if they were just otherwise normal people who for whatever reason got an unlucky roll of the dice it doesn't seem very reasonable to hold that against them.

09-25-2019, 06:34 PM	#850 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Yeh but that's not how I meant it. I mean to me it's overly reckless to knowingly have kids you can't support or like I said if there's an abnormally high likelihood of some illness/defect that will severely **** the kid's life up. If nobody had kids there would be no people. I think it's worth it to risk some pain just to keep the whole phenomenon of consciousness going. Like i said, to someone who values the cessation of suffering above everything else, the moon is a utopia. To me it's a big boring worthless rock. I value life.